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Message
re: President of Georgia Tech's Pride Alliance Shot Dead By Cop After Refusing To Drop Knife
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:28 pm to tuptiger
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:28 pm to tuptiger
quote:
They were level headed. Then their search for adrenaline took over in a fight or flight manner.
Not sure how you can reach that conclusion. I totally buy that one of them was reasonable, but was so tightly wound under pressure that he/she fired before he/she would have liked to under cooler circumstances.
But I don't see how you can determine they were out looking for a thrill.
0
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:28 pm to Fun Bunch
Ok. I'm sure the media reaction to a cop shooting someone with a Louisville slugger would be deemed acceptable
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:29 pm to tuptiger
Oh ok 
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:29 pm to tuptiger
quote:
It'd be outrageous if he had a baseball bat and the cops shot him for not dropping but in truth, a baseball bat is probably similar in lethality to this knife.
If you're charging at a cop with a baseball bat, I've got no problem if they use lethal force.
If they have non-lethal and effective methods at their disposal, they can use that too, but pepper spray isn't going to work in this case.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:30 pm to tuptiger
quote:
Ok. I'm sure the media reaction to a cop shooting someone with a Louisville slugger would be deemed acceptable
If it was presented exactly like this video it would be.
The guy kept advancing. These cops were patient as frick, they waited a very long time until he finally advanced too far on the female officer who felt backed into a corner.
This was suicide by cop plain and simple. Cops were fine.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:31 pm to tuptiger
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:32 pm to TigersSEC2010
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Especially if the cops don't have less than lethal alternatives!
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:33 pm to slackster
quote:
If you're charging at a cop with a baseball bat, I've got no problem if they use lethal force.
I'm conflicted on stuff like this. On one hand, you "deserve" to get shot if you do this.
On the other hand, when 3-4 cops have guns pointed at you and you get shot for moving toward them with a bat, it does concern me that we're (as a society) saying that the risk justifies the response.
That's not because I give a shite about the idiot bat guy, but because there may come a time where a less egregious situation ("he was reaching for a bat and I was only 10 feet away!") is met with the same response.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:33 pm to tuptiger
Quit making excuses for this POS...
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:34 pm to tuptiger
quote:
What is a "lethal weapon"? What if he had a hammer? A baseball bat? Scissors? A taser? These are all "weapons" in certain contexts
Here's a novel idea: don't confront any cops while wielding one of these things you mentioned. It's actually pretty easy to not get killed by a cop if you just follow that simple rule
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:35 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I'm conflicted on stuff like this.
uh wat
If they are advancing with a weapon that can cause great bodily harm, they are going to get shot. There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. The officer has the right to defend themselves reasonably.
quote:
but because there may come a time where a less egregious situation ("he was reaching for a bat and I was only 10 feet away!") is met with the same response.
You don't think the Courts have dealt with this a million times already? Because they have, and an officer in that situation would be found at fault in most cases. It all has to do with the reasonablness of response.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:36 pm to tuptiger
quote:
It'd be outrageous if he had a baseball bat and the cops shot him for not dropping but in truth, a baseball bat is probably similar in lethality to this knife.
Cops are human beings. Legally, there is no expectation that a cop has to take the risk of losing functionality over a body part before using deadly force. A cop doesn't have to believe he will die if he doesn't use deadly force; he just has to articulate that a person has the means, opportunity and capability to cause serious bodily harm.
Let me present a real world situation. If I encounter a guy 15 feet away and is sizing me up with a baseball bat or knife or other instrument that could cause my death/permanent disfigurement, he has met the obligation for deadly force to be used against him. You really don't think a baseball can kill someone? So I reach for my taser but don't catch my charging suspect with both electrodes. Guess what- my head's about to get bashed in.
Hate to tell you this, but I'm going home at the end of my shift the same way I came to work. I'll warn you when I can and do everything I can to get you to cooperate but when you don't drop the knife/gun/bat, you're now responsible for the outcome.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:38 pm to ClientNumber9
People don't understand how unreliable Tazers are.
You don't use them when confronted with imminent great bodily harm.
You don't use them when confronted with imminent great bodily harm.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:39 pm to tuptiger
quote:
President of Georgia Tech's Pride Alliance Shot Dead By Cop After Refusing To Drop Knife
quote:
1. I have to assume most cops don't carry around rubber bullets
But they couldn't keep away from the suspect until someone with rubber billets arrived
quote:
2. Some tasers you have to be pretty damn close to get a use out of it
35 feet according to the internet
I agree if a cop is in hand to hand combat with a person carrying a knife could be justified using a gun. But there are ways around shooting someone with a knife
You sound like a subject matter expert On less than lethal force with plenty of LEO experience. So tell us exactly what they should do?
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:40 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
You don't think the Courts have dealt with this a million times already? Because they have, and an officer in that situation would be found at fault in most cases. It all has to do with the reasonablness of response.
I'm not concerned about what courts do after someone is dead. I'm talking about where we draw the line for the use of deadly force. You can have conversations about this stuff and not be anti-cop.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:41 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I'm talking about where we draw the line for the use of deadly force
There has to be a reasonable expectation of imminent bodily harm in most states.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:42 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
People don't understand how unreliable Tazers are.
Exactly. I have the X26 and it's hard to hit a stationary target from 20 feet. Even if you do hit someone, half the time one of the barbs hits a belt or zipper or jacket and doesn't get a clean connection. I'm not risking my life on the hopes my tazer makes a solid circuit.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:42 pm to tuptiger
quote:
So what if he had a pair of sharp scissors? Would you then think it's ok to shoot someone with live rounds instead of keeping him contained until the rubber bullets arrived?
Yes
Comply with law enforcement orders or suffer the consequences. The time to argue is not during the confrontation. You do what they say and if they were wrong you sue their arse in court. You are not going to win an argument in the heat of the moment. You are probably gonna get shot if you dont do what they say.
Why is this so fricking hard for people to understand?
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:43 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
There has to be a reasonable expectation of imminent bodily harm in most states.
And I think we extend a liberal version of that to police that probably exceeds what is extended to the average citizen.
Give me your gut instinct about the chances those cops make it out of that conflict relatively unscathed without use of deadly force. I'm not holding you to it, and I'm not going to use it against the police in this particular instance. It's just for discussion of the broader topic.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:44 pm to alphaandomega
quote:
Comply with law enforcement orders or suffer the consequences. The time to argue is not during the confrontation. You do what they say and if they were wrong you sue their arse in court. You are not going to win an argument in the heat of the moment. You are probably gonna get shot if you dont do what they say.
Why is this so fricking hard for people to understand?
Meh, the consequences should be appropriate to the risk posed. Failing to get on the ground while being peaceful otherwise shouldn't result in death, for instance.
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