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re: Penalty for using fake service dog?

Posted on 5/8/17 at 8:29 pm to
Posted by Camaro
Member since Jul 2015
45 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 8:29 pm to
quote:

Saw a girl (prob around 16) walking around carrying a little dog with "emotional support" patches on it's harness. IMO if you're still in high school and need a dog for emotional support then you're in for a rude fricking awakening.


We had an Emotional Support Animal for our son with Autism as we went through the 2+ year process of getting him a service dog. ESAs help people with disabilities and disabilities don't care if if the person is still in high school.
Posted by Camaro
Member since Jul 2015
45 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 8:30 pm to
quote:

Damn HIPPa laws




HIPAA has nothing to do with this.
Posted by Camaro
Member since Jul 2015
45 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 8:34 pm to
quote:

People are using the therapy and companion dog designation to bring pets on planes and through airports. I saw a couple in Hartsfield walking two Westies through with companion dog leashes. Everyone knows it's bull shite.


Therapy dogs are ones that are trained to go visit hospitals, nursing homes, etc to provide therapy for the people there. They are not covered under any of the federal disability laws.

Emotional Support Animals mitigate their person's disability by being there, they are covered under the Air Carrier's Access Act. The ACAA allows airlines to require 48 hours notice and specific documentation from a treating licensed medical professional, the stuff purchased online does not qualify.
Posted by Camaro
Member since Jul 2015
45 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 8:41 pm to
quote:

LINK /

Not necessarily illegal under federal law because under the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), people can't ask you about what disability that you have the dog for. You can only ask what services it performs and then you basically have to infer based off of that.

However, there are a few states that have penalties. Louisiana does require that the owner provide a certificate or something to prove that the animal is a service animal if they don't normally allow animals in their establishments.

LINK


Just for clarity, in order to qualify for the protections under the Louisiana law the person has to show evidence from the program that trained it, however the ADA is federal law and requiring documentation or proof is a violation of that law. So a business cannot require proof but if a person gets denied and wants to charge the business with a misdemeanor they need to show proof.
Posted by Camaro
Member since Jul 2015
45 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 8:44 pm to
quote:

It's as easy as entering in your CC#

LINK


All that means is a person spent money, it does not make an animal an emotional support animal that is protected by federal laws.
Posted by lsunurse
Member since Dec 2005
129146 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:04 pm to
Had a call this weekend about this very topic.


Guy in the hospital has his dog staying in the room with him. Claims it is his service dog. Charge nurse calling me wanting to know if she can demand proof. Had to look up our hospital policy on this matter. Legally...we can only ask if the animal is a service animal and what function they serve. We CANNOT ask for proof that the animal is a service animal. We can ask for proof of rabies vaccinations. We cannot refuse the animal to stay unless the animal poses a direct threat to the health of others.


So we had to let the dog stay...the patient going outside with the dog periodically to let the dog go to the bathroom. Dog not even wearing a vest.



And this is in a hospital of all places.


ETA: I think ADA only officially recognizes dogs and horses as service animals.
This post was edited on 5/8/17 at 9:05 pm
Posted by Traveler
I'm not late-I'm early for tomorrow
Member since Sep 2003
25616 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:08 pm to
quote:

we had to let the dog stay...the patient going outside with the dog periodically to let the dog go to the bathroom.


Just when you think you have seen it all...
Posted by TigerWise
Front Seat of an Uber
Member since Sep 2010
35123 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:47 pm to
I saw this at Whole Foods uptown on Sunday. If it was a service dog than it was odd the lady tied the dog to here buggy on the frozen food aisle as she went up to the front of the store to get it a cup of water. She came back and gave the dog the water right there by the ice cream.

Strange but I might start doing it if those hippies allow it. Walk the mutt and make groceries. Two birds, one stone.
Posted by Camaro
Member since Jul 2015
45 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:48 pm to
quote:

Had a call this weekend about this very topic.

Guy in the hospital has his dog staying in the room with him. Claims it is his service dog. Charge nurse calling me wanting to know if she can demand proof. Had to look up our hospital policy on this matter. Legally...we can only ask if the animal is a service animal and what function they serve. We CANNOT ask for proof that the animal is a service animal. We can ask for proof of rabies vaccinations. We cannot refuse the animal to stay unless the animal poses a direct threat to the health of others.

So we had to let the dog stay...the patient going outside with the dog periodically to let the dog go to the bathroom. Dog not even wearing a vest.

And this is in a hospital of all places.

ETA: I think ADA only officially recognizes dogs and horses as service animals.


Yes that is all correct. No proof, vest is not required, can be with the patient, only dogs with a provision about miniature horses. The guidance section of the ADA goes into more detail but the most recent FAQ sheet addresses this as well. FAQ about Service Animals and the ADA

Q14. Does a hospital have to allow an in-patient with a disability to keep a service animal in his or her room?

A. Generally, yes. Service animals must be allowed in patient rooms and anywhere else in the hospital the public and patients are allowed to go. They cannot be excluded on the grounds that staff can provide the same services.

Q15. What happens if a patient who uses a service animal is admitted to the hospital and is unable to care for or supervise their animal?

A. If the patient is not able to care for the service animal, the patient can make arrangements for a family member or friend to come to the hospital to provide these services, as it is always preferable that the service animal and its handler not be separated, or to keep the dog during the hospitalization. If the patient is unable to care for the dog and is unable to arrange for someone else to care for the dog, the hospital may place the dog in a boarding facility until the patient is released, or make other appropriate arrangements. However, the hospital must give the patient the opportunity to make arrangements for the dog's care before taking such steps.
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:59 pm to
There are a couple organizations online that provide certification (for a price) based solely on the owners word that the animal is trained.
This post was edited on 5/8/17 at 10:00 pm
Posted by TigersHeisman225
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2016
632 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:01 pm to
Most dogs are cool and should be allowed where people are. It's more of a disgrace that cool dogs aren't allowed.
Posted by lsunurse
Member since Dec 2005
129146 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:04 pm to
quote:

animals must be allowed in patient rooms and anywhere else in the hospital the public and patients are allowed to go.


We can exclude them from the ICUs. Only way they can go into the ICU is by special permission by Infection Control.
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
65991 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:06 pm to
You've never seen me so triggered as when someone questions the legitimacy of my service pony on airplanes.
Posted by Camaro
Member since Jul 2015
45 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:09 pm to
quote:

There are a couple organizations online that provide certification (for a price) based solely on the owners word that the animal is trained.


True but those certifications are not recognized by any of the federal regulations. They carry no legal meaning. The FAQ on Service Animals and the ADA addresses those as well. Under Q17:
"There are individuals and organizations that sell service animal certification or registration documents online. These documents do not convey any rights under the ADA and the Department of Justice does not recognize them as proof that the dog is a service animal."
Posted by Gevans17
Member since Dec 2007
1135 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:11 pm to
Saw peeps with 2 service? dogs eating off plates in Copelands this past Friday Ridiculous
Posted by Camaro
Member since Jul 2015
45 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:22 pm to
quote:

We can exclude them from the ICUs. Only way they can go into the ICU is by special permission by Infection Control.


ICUs are iffy, sometimes yes sometimes no. The ADA guidance section references the CDC Guidelines for Environmental Infection Control in Health-Care Facilities for Service Animals in hospitals. Here are some relevant portions of that from pgs 108-109 (123-124 of the linked pdf):

An overview of the subject of service animals and their presence in health-care facilities has been published.
1366 No evidence suggests that animals pose a more significant risk of transmitting infection than people; therefore, service animals should not be excluded from such areas, unless an individual patient’s situation or a particular animal poses greater risk that cannot be mitigated through reasonable measures. If health-care personnel, visitors, and patients are permitted to enter care areas (e.g., in­patient rooms, some ICUs, and public areas) without taking additional precautions to prevent transmission of infectious agents (e.g., donning gloves, gowns, or masks), a clean, healthy, well-behaved service animal should be allowed access with its handler.1366 Similarly, if immunocompromised patients are able to receive visitors without using protective garments or equipment, an exclusion of service animals from this area would not be justified.

Excluding a service animal from an OR or similar special care areas (e.g., burn units, some ICUs, PE units, and any other area containing equipment critical for life support) is appropriate if these areas are considered to have “restricted access” with regards to the general public. General infection-control measures that dictate such limited access include a) the area is required to meet environmental criteria to minimize the risk of disease transmission, b) strict attention to hand hygiene and absence of dermatologic conditions, and c) barrier protective measures [e.g., using gloves, wearing gowns and masks] are indicated for persons in the affected space. No infection-control measures regarding the use of barrier precautions could be reasonably imposed on the service animal.
This post was edited on 5/8/17 at 10:25 pm
Posted by Camaro
Member since Jul 2015
45 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:37 pm to
quote:

Saw peeps with 2 service? dogs eating off plates in Copelands this past Friday Ridiculous




There are valid reasons someone may have 2 service dogs, one could be in training if state law covers that, or the dogs could be trained for different tasks as in some cases it can be difficult to find one dog suited to everything a person needs. Either way even if legitimate service dogs the restaurant does not have to allow them to sit at the table or be fed from plates.

Q32. Are restaurants, bars, and other places that serve food or drink required to allow service animals to be seated on chairs or allow the animal to be fed at the table?

A. No. Seating, food, and drink are provided for customer use only. The ADA gives a person with a disability the right to be accompanied by his or her service animal, but covered entities are not required to allow an animal to sit or be fed at the table.
Posted by CapperVin
Member since Apr 2013
10617 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:50 pm to
Why don't you mine your own fricking business
Posted by Broke
AKA Buttercup
Member since Sep 2006
65278 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 11:36 pm to
quote:

Why don't you mine your own fricking business


Why don't you suck my balls.
Posted by el duderino III
People's Republic of Austin
Member since Jul 2011
2405 posts
Posted on 5/8/17 at 11:44 pm to
quote:

I would love to get her arrested for this.
I'm with you, but there's zero chance that happens. The only thing they could do is make her leave for not having the right documentation.
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