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Started By
Message
re: Pastor Spell Under House Arrest with Ankle Monitor
Posted on 4/26/20 at 10:43 am to tLSU
Posted on 4/26/20 at 10:43 am to tLSU
quote:
It does. And having religious mass gatherings during a pandemic is not within the scope of either of those rights.
Signed,
The Supreme Court of the United States
To quote a friendly poster, "nope".
0
Posted on 4/26/20 at 10:43 am to BestBanker
quote:
So I disregard your case as evidence contrary to the right to assemble and worship.
You're free to "disregard" whatever you want. Some claim to disregard the authority of the government, the rule of law, etc.
The case has been cited nearly 9000 times. The phrase I quoted is the most commonly quoted line from the case by those 9000 courts which have referenced it. In fact, it's even quoted in the Wikipedia page you selectively pulled from.
Once again, you're free to claim what the law is. I'm sure that once Pastor Spell takes this up, the Fifth Circuit and Supreme Court will agree with you and reverse Prince.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 10:43 am to OleWar
quote:
Does God lack human decency?
God sent 10 plagues the last of which was him killing the firstborn son of every family in the country. Also the firstborn cattle.
He also has a penchant for torching entire cities with brimstone and turning dudes' wives into salt.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 10:45 am to DampSocksOnSaturday
quote:
It doesn’t have to specify religious assembly. It deals with government orders during a pandemic superseding a religious belief.
I note your argument but it didn't address the right to assemble and worship. Show me the case that states the right to assemble freely and worship can be taken by the government.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 10:47 am to tLSU
quote:
The case has been cited nearly 9000 times. The phrase I quoted is the most commonly quoted line from the case by those 9000 courts which have referenced it. In fact, it's even quoted in the Wikipedia page you selectively pulled from.
And yet had nothing to do with the right to assemble and worship. You pulled the quote to argue your position.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 10:49 am to BestBanker
quote:
Zero to do with assembly.
It has more so to do with ensuring public health can override religious doctrine. Which is why we’re allowed to have compulsory vaccination laws despite religious objections if you want to enter public schools.
That said...
quote:
The First Amendment does not provide the right to conduct an assembly at which there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, or interference with traffic on public streets, or other immediate threat to public safety or order.[13] Statutes that prohibit people from assembling and using force or violence to accomplish unlawful purposes are permissible under the First Amendment.
Jones v. Parmley continued to establish that there is a difference in “peaceful assembly” and assembly that could be a threat to public safety.
Law Library of Congress First Amendment Link
Posted on 4/26/20 at 10:51 am to BestBanker
quote:
I note your argument but it didn't address the right to assemble and worship. Show me the case that states the right to assemble freely and worship can be taken by the government.
That is not how the SCOTUS works in regard to rulings. There are not specific judgements for every possible scenario. All I am saying is that if this does move though the courts, that case will most likely be one of the previous rulings referenced when judges/justices make their final decision because it has the elements of government “rules” superseding religious “practices”. Specifically during a pandemic.
This post was edited on 4/26/20 at 10:55 am
Posted on 4/26/20 at 10:52 am to BestBanker
quote:
nothing to do with assembly
You actually don't understand the right of association/assembly and how it has nothing to do with the right to physically go inside a church.
If you want to talk restrictions on the freedom of association, take a look at time place and manner restrictions for general public safety. The government can make you purchase a permit for a protest, limit its scope, duration, set its time, deny it outright....
But the freedom of assembly is absolute with respect to holding a mass during a pandemic and stay at home order?
Maybe less wikilaw.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 10:59 am to tLSU
quote:
You actually don't understand the right of association/assembly and how it has nothing to do with the right to physically go inside a church.
First amendment to the US Constitution differs with you
quote:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,
The two can go together.
quote:
The First Amendment guarantees freedoms concerning religion, expression, assembly, and the right to petition.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 11:01 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Jones v. Parmley continued to establish that there is a difference in “peaceful assembly” and assembly that could be a threat to public safety.
By protesting on a highway(?), which again doesn't bear relation to the right to assemble to worship.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 11:03 am to JAlohaM
And he’s having church.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 11:05 am to BestBanker
quote:
By protesting on a highway(?), which again doesn't bear relation to the right to assemble to worship.
Do you understand that there isn’t going to be a SCOTUS case that specifically pertains to church assembly during a pandemic? Surely you can see how mass gatherings during a highly contagious disease outbreak could be a threat to human health. That is the standard that is set, not if we can gather on a highway.
This post was edited on 4/26/20 at 11:08 am
Posted on 4/26/20 at 11:05 am to BestBanker
quote:
By protesting on a highway(?), which again doesn't bear relation to the right to assemble to worship.
It deals with defining peaceful assembly. It’s long been established that violating state of emergency orders isn’t considered peaceful.
Which is where the Jacobs decision comes in. The government can establish laws and orders to protect its people in a health crisis that supersedes religious preference.
This post was edited on 4/26/20 at 11:07 am
Posted on 4/26/20 at 11:06 am to BestBanker
Once again, you can quote the Constitution but you don't actually understand what the right of association/assembly is. The lack of prohibition on holding mass remotely during the stay at home destroys your position on assembly.
Noentheless, I again ask you to reconcile the drastically simple methods of limiting the right of assembly with respect to time, place and manner with the apparent position that physically going into a church is an absolute right.
Noentheless, I again ask you to reconcile the drastically simple methods of limiting the right of assembly with respect to time, place and manner with the apparent position that physically going into a church is an absolute right.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 11:06 am to DampSocksOnSaturday
quote:
That is not how the SCOTUS works in regard to rulings. There are not specific judgements for every possible scenario
Thus the argument for the right to assemble and freely exercise the right to worship. There's a big line that hasn't been crossed. Obviously previously adjudicated cases may offer insight as to how issues may be observed and treated, but I no of no case that allows interference with assembly to worship.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 11:06 am to tLSU
quote:
t's embarrassing that we're having this happen here (including this trash trying to back a bus over protestors), but this kind of thing comes with having one of the least educated populations in the first world.
Agree.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 11:09 am to BestBanker
quote:
right to assemble to worship
Is the right to free exercise.
You are completely lost as to what association /assembly means.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 11:11 am to DampSocksOnSaturday
quote:
Do you understand that there isn’t going to be a SCOTUS case that specifically pertains to church assembly during a pandemic?
Finally, the point.
quote:
Surely you can see how mass gatherings during a highly contentious disease outbreak could be a threat to human health. That is the standard that is the standard set. Not if we can gather on a highway.
The rest of your post gets emotional, and then one could argue the my body, my choice line of defense. The highway gathering case doesn't apply. That only pertained to a perceived right to peaceably assemble.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 11:12 am to tLSU
quote:
You are completely lost as to what association /assembly
This is your opinion.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 11:12 am to tLSU
It’s also worth noting that if a state Governor has been restricting any mass gatherings during a pandemic, regardless of religious affiliation, then it’s not exclusively restricting religious practice. And that will come into play in any decision. Even Barr said as much in his comments.
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