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re: OTD 40 Years Ago: July 17, 1981 - 114 Killed When Skywalk Collapses at KCMO Hyatt Regency
Posted on 7/17/21 at 12:55 pm to rt3
Posted on 7/17/21 at 12:55 pm to rt3
The connection detail was poor even in the original design. Even if built as originally designed it was barely above unity in safety factor, much less than the code permits for structures of this type.
Once the field change was made on the connection detail, and approved by the design engineering company, it was doomed to failure.
The original poor box beam connection detail was dreamed up to accommodate easier trim out with sheetrock and metal studs as the goal, not increased strength.
This failure also fundamentally changed the way design engineers are held to account for their plans. Your stamp on the plans, your responsibility regardless of who designs the connection details.
The original design engineer fought the case vehemently but eventually lost. His claim was the connection details were the responsibility of others, per the plans. He lost that case when the lower level design engineer in his firm approved the field change to the two-rod system.
Once the field change was made on the connection detail, and approved by the design engineering company, it was doomed to failure.
The original poor box beam connection detail was dreamed up to accommodate easier trim out with sheetrock and metal studs as the goal, not increased strength.
This failure also fundamentally changed the way design engineers are held to account for their plans. Your stamp on the plans, your responsibility regardless of who designs the connection details.
The original design engineer fought the case vehemently but eventually lost. His claim was the connection details were the responsibility of others, per the plans. He lost that case when the lower level design engineer in his firm approved the field change to the two-rod system.
1
Posted on 7/17/21 at 1:00 pm to AndyCBR
quote:
The connection detail was poor even in the original design. Even if built as originally designed it was barely above unity in safety factor, much less than the code permits for structures of this type.
Once the field change was made on the connection detail, and approved by the design engineering company, it was doomed to failure.
I read that part but wasn't sure how to write it in a way that made sense
essentially the original design was already flawed... and the changed design made things even worse
Posted on 7/17/21 at 1:19 pm to Cosmo
“I don’t think Mossad-flown planes flying into buildings counts as an engineering failure”
Whatever he’s smoking he should share it. small correction also did we ever get a valid reason for why Building #7 which wasn’t touched at all suddenly imploded and pancaked with 100s of people hearing the charges go off..? Or for that matter, the Dancing Israelis who were videoed driving across the George Washington Bridge with a giant cartoon of the Twin Towers burning on the side of their truck?
Whatever he’s smoking he should share it. small correction also did we ever get a valid reason for why Building #7 which wasn’t touched at all suddenly imploded and pancaked with 100s of people hearing the charges go off..? Or for that matter, the Dancing Israelis who were videoed driving across the George Washington Bridge with a giant cartoon of the Twin Towers burning on the side of their truck?
Posted on 7/17/21 at 1:38 pm to rt3
Even to a non-civil engineer that detail of the beam looks pathetically sketchy. It’s appears in that close up pic like the beam itself is comprised of 2 “C” channels joined to make a box. That can’t be right but the photo depicts a seem there and the metal is THINNER at that seem (where Rod penetrated thru “nut”.
Anyway the WALL thickness of the beam itself looks entirely to THIN for such a massive KINETIC load bearing cantilevered walkway.
It’s not technically cantilevered but those THIN RODS that appear to hold it up look suspiciously thin to support such a huge span.
Another possible issue was there was nothing or no one limiting the number of people who could access it.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 1:45 pm to Confederate Brass
The Israelis dancing were Mossad agents that were glad that the attack happened because they knew it would allow Israel to attack Arabs with sympathy and help from America. They knew of the terrorists but the unanswered question is did they know the attack was about to happen and chose not to warn the US. They were all sent back to Israel.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 1:59 pm to rt3
Ive stayed there before and the interior looks almost exactly the same. At least it did back in 2008. You can still see where the skywalks connected.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 2:30 pm to 0x15E
quote:
I’m assuming that’s blood from the people caught under the collapse in that photo?
Yes.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 2:30 pm to JackieTreehorn
quote:
Ive stayed there before and the interior looks almost exactly the same. At least it did back in 2008. You can still see where the skywalks connected.
Some new lighting, paint, and railings. But otherwise the same.
Not a Hyatt anymore though.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 2:47 pm to 0x15E
quote:
I’m assuming that’s blood from the people caught under the collapse in that photo?
Yes, yes it is. Basically a 4 story square atrium that pancaked everyone on the walkways and.below. It was a happening place to be for the blue bloods & blue hairs, imagine an upscale KC Lawrence Welk show. Grew up ten minutes away from there & was 11 at the time. All I could think of was it had better not have taken out the Trader Vic’s on the 2nd floor which at the time I thought was the coolest place/restaurant on the planet
It was a big deal at the time and I distinctly remembering the local news breaking into local programming and getting a shite load of complaints from the citizenry about interrupting their programs. No internet nor 24/7 news cycles was even a glint in Ted Turner’s greedy eyes and most read about it the next day in the KC Star.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 3:15 pm to East Coast Band
This thing is just insane, I was not aware! 
Posted on 7/17/21 at 3:27 pm to rt3
I wonder if it would have ultimately still collapsed had it been built to original design
Posted on 7/17/21 at 3:57 pm to frequent flyer
quote:
Not a Hyatt anymore though.
it's the Sheraton Crown Center now
I believe it's now considered 1 of the safest buildings in the country due to changes done post-collapse
the 3rd floor skywalk was removed and only the 2nd floor 1 was rebuilt... except it's not dangling from the ceiling but instead now on top of pillars on the ground
Posted on 7/17/21 at 4:03 pm to jlovel7
2P-P = P. Nut can withstand P. No problem.
2P-0 = 2P. Nut will bust.
2P-0 = 2P. Nut will bust.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 6:14 pm to 0x15E
Silverstein who owned the towers had JUST re-insured both buildings. Yeah. He knew too. How did the owner of the Twin towers know just coincidence or ..another Bernie “MadeOff” style heist on the unsuspecting -cattle- Goy
Posted on 7/17/21 at 6:37 pm to rt3
“Floating skywalks” were a phase in architecture it would seem
Speaking of structural failure and
What’s not mentioned here is, prior to ever opening 1 1/2 years into the build a massive sheet of “windows” the size of a tennis court plunged 42 floors. The architect concluded “bolts” were installed incorrectly and they rebuilt the atrium ceiling again.
Speaking of structural failure and
What’s not mentioned here is, prior to ever opening 1 1/2 years into the build a massive sheet of “windows” the size of a tennis court plunged 42 floors. The architect concluded “bolts” were installed incorrectly and they rebuilt the atrium ceiling again.
Posted on 7/18/21 at 6:47 am to rt3
quote:
it's the Sheraton Crown Center now
I believe it's now considered 1 of the safest buildings in the country due to changes done post-collapse
the 3rd floor skywalk was removed and only the 2nd floor 1 was rebuilt... except it's not dangling from the ceiling but instead now on top of pillars on the ground
before and after.
Posted on 7/18/21 at 8:46 am to frequent flyer
That isn't blood on the carpet. The carpet was red, and this is just a weird mix of dust that settle on top. The place flooded immediately after and the doors were acting like a dam. The fire chief rammed a bulldozer through the front door to release the pressure. Blood would have been washed away because of this.
Watch the Seconds from Disaster episode about this if you get a chance. The story about the last guy who was pulled alive from the wreckage is unbelievable.
Watch the Seconds from Disaster episode about this if you get a chance. The story about the last guy who was pulled alive from the wreckage is unbelievable.
Posted on 7/18/21 at 9:04 am to DoctorTechnical
quote:
Similar story to what happened to the chief structural engineer for the Citicorp building in New York.
Whoopsie
You should check out how they rewarded the engineering student who’s question led to their recognizing, and eventually correcting that mistake. They ghosted her.
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