re: New JRE dropped today with Daryl cooper

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His thesis that Winston Churchill was the biggest villain of the Second World War is absolute bullshite.

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Dinner day the biggest villain or “one of the biggest” because I’ve heard him talk about Stalin and he absolutely loathes that man

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ETA: Hitler bad. Antisemitism bad. Nazis bad. Allies good.

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Yes?

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The German people just decided in the 1930s for no reason whatsoever that they should purge Jewish people from society? It literally just appeared in Hitler’s mind in the 20s and through sheer oratory skill managed to get millions of people to agree with him overnight?

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No.

It had been building in Germany and throughout Europe for a long time before the rise of the Nazis. Contrary to popular opinion, Hitler didn't come out of nowhere. His ideas existed before the man was even born. The Coming of the Third Reich by Richard J. Evans does a fantastic job of highlighting this and telling the story of the conditions that made the rise of Hitler possible.

And when he came to power it was a gradual process towards genocide. For instance:

1933 - Jews were forced out of government service and the number of Jewish students allowed at German universities were curtailed and limited. So too was Jewish participation in the medical and legal fields.

1934 - Licenses of Jewish tax consultants were revoked; a 1.5% quota of "non-Aryan" persons was established for public schools and universities; Jewish civilians workers were booted from the army; Jewish actors were forbidden from performing on stage/on screen. That same year, the state of Saxony forbade Jews from slaughtering animals for ritual purity requirements, effectively preventing Jewish citizens in Saxony from following Jewish dietary requirements

1935 - The Nuremberg Laws go into effect. These law revoked German Jews of their citizenship and prohibited them from marrying or having sexual relations with persons of "German or German-related blood." Jews were were no longer allowed to vote or hold public office. German court judges could not cite legal commentaries or opinions written by Jewish authors, Jewish officers were expelled from the army, and Jewish university students were not allowed to sit for doctoral exams. The names of Jewish soldiers were publicly forbidden to be listed among the names of Germany's First World War dead.

1937 - After a pause on antisemitism for the 1936 Summer Olympic games, the German government ramps back up the pressure against Jews living in the Reich. The "Aryanization" of businesses began. Jews were forced to sell their businesses at bargain prices set by the Nazi Party to non-Jewish Germans.

1938 - Following the events of Kristallnacht (November 9-10, 1938), the first public pogrom carried out against the Jews in Germany under the Nazis, efforts were stepped up to completely isolate them from German society. Jews could no longer attend public schools or universities; they could no longer attend cinemas, theaters, or sporting events. In many cities throughout Germany, Jews were forbidden to enter so-called "Aryan" zones. In August of that year, it was decreed that by January 1, 1939, all Jews in Germany had to publicly identify themselves as Jews with identification cards. Even their passports were stamped with the letter J.

And as all of these things took place throughout the 1930s, the German people more or less went along with it. They participated in boycotts of Jewish businesses and by and large had no problem with Jews being gradually removed from their society. And as World War II erupted and Jews began disappearing from their communities to points unknown, these German civilians weren't stupid or ignorant. They knew something was happening to them and many of them guessed correctly what. However, few if any stood up and said no.

It’s not a mischaracterization at all. He’s said those things

Literally in the Rogan interview he says the lives were not worth the cost of defeating Hitler.

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He also claims that Hitler made zero antisemitic public speeches before 1939 which is of course not just patently false but absolutely an outrageous lie.

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I guess you saw this tweet and ran with it.

I’ll try to be nuanced, Hitler did not rise to power claiming up front that he wanted to take over Europe and kill all Jews in every public campaign speech. I have 0 doubt that he did want both of those things. I have 0 doubt that he was saying those things in the 20s. We know he was. Cooper says he was in beer halls and Nazi rallies saying those things less so at every public center. He’s saying that wasn’t his open and public rallying cry.

He is the great villain of the 20th century and every vilification you want to throw his way is justified and I will not argue.

Cooper is saying that he did not rise solely to power on killing Jews and taking over Europe as key campaign planks. No one argues he did want those things. The study/podcasts is how he did actually rise to power.

I have no beef with you, I just don’t see this in the absolute frame as you do.

I hate Nazis. I hate communists. I hate antisemitism. I hate racism. I just don’t draw the same conclusions.

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It had been building in Germany and throughout Europe for a long time before the rise of the Nazis. Contrary to popular opinion, Hitler didn't come out of nowhere. His ideas existed before the man was even born. The Coming of the Third Reich by Richard J. Evans does a fantastic job of highlighting this and telling the story of the conditions that made the rise of Hitler possible.

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To add:

That’s quite literally the point of Cooper’s podcast series. He quotes Evans numerous times.

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Just because uneducated people have hijacked the conversation doesn't make what happened in the 1930s and 1940s any less true. Daryl Cooper's problem is that he takes nuanced topics and twists them for his own designs. The uneducated masses on both sides then fall for it hook, line, and sinker. His thesis that Winston Churchill was the biggest villain of the Second World War is absolute bullshite.

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Daryl has never said anything close to being Nazi apologist and his views are very nuanced actually so the irony of you not knowing or understanding Daryl’s viewpoint is hilarious. And you are clearly the person who’s never listened to much of Daryl’s work if you truly believe he thinks Churchill is the main villain. Yes, he said that but he also explained he was being hyperbolic and mostly saying it to poke fun at his friend, jocko willink, who’s wife is English. He described world war 2 as a maniacal father who’s taken his family hostage and Churchill as a hostage negotiator who dares him to kill his family basically. Yes Hitler is clearly the villain but coopers point is that if Churchill doesn’t push for war and then total victory the overall death toll is probably much lower. And the final solution likely never happens. Not because Hitler didn’t hate Jews, but because they understood optics and wanted to avoid that if possible. I dont necessarily agree with this entire point either but I wouldn’t call it “absolute bullshite.” As he’s said, anything that would’ve stopped the killing faster is what he would’ve wanted just like the situation in Ukraine today.

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If he had a basic understanding of British history from the 18th century onward, the English were predisposed to preventing any one country in continental Europe from becoming too powerful. They went to war with France multiple times to prevent them from gaining hegemony over Europe. They did the same against Germany in both 1914 and 1939.

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he mentions this in the podcast with Rogan. That a friend of his told him his issue was less with Churchill and more with British imperial policy because if it wasn’t Churchill it would’ve just been some other British politician doing the same thing. Again, I don’t agree entirely with his premise, mainly because like you said it was chamberlain who was PM when they declared war on Germany, but his point is that Hitler wanted to make peace multiple times and Churchill was never having it. While I see Daryl’s point I believe he’s using a bit of hindsight and that the best move at the time was to fight the Nazis. But he isn’t a Nazi apologist,I think he’s just really empathetic.

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Hitler wanted to make peace multiple times and Churchill was never having it.

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Hitler wanted peace on HIS terms. After the invasion of Poland, peace feelers were put out by Nazi Germany to Great Britain and France. Remember...this is still when Chamberlain is PM. Britain and France responded that they were unwilling to entertain peace talks unless Germany withdrew its military forces from Poland and returned civil authority in Poland to the Poles. A very reasonable request considering war was declared after Germany invaded Poland.

Hitler refused.

Then in 1940, when France was overrun, the Nazis made indirect overtures through neutral parties to the British for a negotiated peace. Once again...this is ignoring three centuries of British foreign policy. They were not about to allow Germany to control French ports on the English Channel.

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And as all of these things took place throughout the 1930s, the German people more or less went along with it. They participated in boycotts of Jewish businesses and by and large had no problem with Jews being gradually removed from their society. And as World War II erupted and Jews began disappearing from their communities to points unknown, these German civilians weren't stupid or ignorant. They knew something was happening to them and many of them guessed correctly what. However, few if any stood up and said no.

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Couldn’t recommend enough the third reich trilogy by Richard j evans . The first book goes up to Hitler becoming chancellor . It’s very very good.

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The most laughable thing in this thread is calling Cooper an anti-Semite. The first 30 minutes of Fear and Loathing in the new Jerusalem is brutal details of Pogroms across Europe and the Holocaust and creating sympathy with Jewish people during the entirety of the second millennia.

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correct. Rolltide1987 knows what he’s talking about but he clearly hasn’t listened to much of Daryl’s work on Israel/palestine because Daryl mentions the same issues Jews faced in Europe pre Nazi that he does trying to tear Daryl down