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re: Michigan State Shooting: Shooter dead, At Least 3 victims dead, 5 wounded
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:33 pm to deeprig9
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:33 pm to deeprig9
quote:Yeah. And I don't think gun bans is viable, let alone good, solution. I mean when I'm not arguing with the right-wingers here, I'm often arguing with the left-wingers on twitter and reddit, and they were coming up with all of these dumb solutions after Uvalde because "they had to," and I told them they were dumb solutions.
This is all reasonable, but the extent to which some forces go to ban guns, you can only expect the opposing side to go to the other extreme.
The one was like adding a $1,000 tax to buy the gun, and I was like well that's going to disproportionately impact the poor and minorities, which seems wrong. And since it was in response to a mass school shooting, it's not like someone planning to do that really cares about the savings or credit when they're either going to die or go to prison for the rest of their lives.
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Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:33 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I was one that then responded that said it might be a bigger problem with the "gangster" culture, but that they're both problems. I'm not sure if that's true, because it might just be that they add a similar relative amount to the problem; it's just that the groups were already different with homicide rates much higher in the black community. I don't know either way.
Sounds like you dont know much of anything about what you just said
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:33 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
But probably not those kids given that photo
Why?
I see good trigger and muzzle discipline, and looks like the chambers are flagged.
The big difference between those rifles and the 10/22 I've had since I was four is the scary looking features gun control zealots tell us make those rifles more dangerous.
Aside from this clearly being political posturing, I don't see a problem here.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:34 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
And what stood out is that they were envious of having the 2A rights, as they wished it was easier to have a gun for self-defense at what not, but they also thought some of the extreme pro-gun culture was insane. In fact, they were surprised to learn not everyone had a gun (despite them visiting the states multiple times) after I reported that I didn't own one (my brother-in-law has a biometric safe by his bed access his guns).
Their rationale is exactly what allowed them to be stripped of any rights they had and they're too goddamn arrogant and dumb to see it
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:36 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I was in England back in 2019 and my brother-in-law and I were talking to these dudes at our hotel bar.
If there's a group of people whose opinion I don't care about at all when it comes to the Second Amendment, it's the fricking Brits.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:37 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
If there's a group of people whose opinion I don't care about at all when it comes to the Second Amendment, it's the fricking Brits.
If we just support reasonable laws the government will act reasonably. They'd never abuse those powers.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:38 pm to upgrayedd
quote:You keep responding to posts that were in response to me, but I already said there is a clear racial issues at play (or at least factors highly correlated with race, which I guess results in the same thing), and that there is a problem with the black/gangster culture's treatment of guns as a flippant status symbol (as well as others who treat them similarly).
Practically speaking, crimes committed by black people are generally permissible in the social and political realm. Even gun crime advocates go completely silent when someone goes into the nitty gritty of gun crime demographics.
So you keep responding to these responses to me saying that crimes by black people are permissible and/or ignored when the data is presented, but in my posts I'm not only not ignoring the racial/demographics disparities, and I'm explicitly noting them.
Why do you keep saying that, specifically to responses to my posts, when it's not true for me, the person they were responding to.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:40 pm to buckeye_vol
You're keep trying to make relativism arguments when it's not applicable
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:41 pm to upgrayedd
quote:Sure, but that's why I mentioned the the second amendment is important, and references the insanity around the extreme gun culture, not the fundamental right to bear and keep arms. But we don't have to treat guns like they're status symbols and toys. It's weird, and the exact opposite of the way people I know who are very serious not only gun ownership, but the seriousness of the responsibility who comes with them. Or just take a CCW trainer, how do they treat guns and the responsibility/safety? It's nothing like those goofballs I'm talking about.
Their rationale is exactly what allowed them to be stripped of any rights they had and they're too goddamn arrogant and dumb to see it
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:43 pm to upgrayedd
quote:You mean like discussing homicide rates of certain groups relative to other groups, while also arguing that we (particularly me) are ignoring the relative rates? Fine. I'll just treat homicide rates as the same between blacks and whites, not relative comparisons, since they're not applicable.
You're keep trying to make relativism arguments when it's not applicable
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:50 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Sure, but that's why I mentioned the the second amendment is important, and references the insanity around the extreme gun culture, not the fundamental right to bear and keep arms. But we don't have to treat guns like they're status symbols and toys. It's weird, and the exact opposite of the way people I know who are very serious not only gun ownership, but the seriousness of the responsibility who comes with them. Or just take a CCW trainer, how do they treat guns and the responsibility/safety? It's nothing like those goofballs I'm talking about.
Your little limey friends, much like you love making the "the 2A is important, BUT..." statements and the "but" is exactly what opens the door to gun laws. The British don't deserve guns because they're too weak to stomach liberty. Always have been and always will be. This country is well on its way there as well.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 10:00 pm to upgrayedd
Why did this idiot kill these kids? Any motivation revealed ?
Posted on 2/14/23 at 10:02 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
Any motivation revealed?
I think I read that his dad said the shooter “turned evil after his mom died”
It’s going to be waved away as a mental health thing.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 10:05 pm to upgrayedd
quote:This is just such a weird misrepresentation. Half of the conversation was about the benefits of the 2A, and how they were jealous of it. And the fact that we have the 2A, makes any policing comparison moot in the first place. It’s not like those dudes had any say in the matter anyways.
Your little limey friends, much like you love making the "the 2A is important, BUT..." statements and the "but" is exactly what opens the door to gun laws. The British don't deserve guns because they're too weak to stomach liberty. Always have been and always will be. This country is well on its way there as well.
Regardless the other half was about the culture, which is specifically independent of policy anyways (they could try but I don’t think it would do much good).
So the gist is 2A = good, but the extreme, flippant culture around guns = insane, and probably contributes to the problem, the same problem that makes people want to enforce more restrictions.
If you have no problem with this culture then say it, but stop misrepresenting what I’m saying and glossing over that.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 10:14 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Regardless the other half was about the culture, which is specifically independent of policy anyways
I don't agree. It's not a coincidence that folks like Feinstein and Cicilline throw around "right wing gun nuts" like that's what all gun owners are.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 10:29 pm to upgrayedd
quote:And if you want to talk about gun laws, how about this? I live in Ohio, which has increasingly lax gun laws, some of think are outrageous, like allowing teachers to carry but requiring a fraction of the training that is recommended and which many other states have.
exactly what opens the door to gun laws.
But I have thought about getting me CCW permit, but I am ineligible because I have a medical marijuana card that I qualified for due to a one herniated disc and one completely disintegrated disc in my spine. But I primarily use it maybe once a week to relax/sleep because of my insomnia.
So we have an ardent 2A GOP supermajority, as a result of ignoring constitutionally required districting, and I, and anyone else who has legally obtained marijuana, if barred from getting a CCW permit. We could get it if we bought it illegally though (assuming not caught).
So hey, we love the 2nd amendment so much we’ll allow our teachers to carry guns in schools with laughably minimal training, but get some medical marijuana and have a gummy once a week, we’ll all of a sudden you’re 2A rights need restricted. I can buy some Wild Turkey 101 at the liquor store though, to drink at night, but that’s ok.
So needless to say, when these pro-2A legislatures talk about how important these 2A rights are, forgive me for not buying that crap when they clearly and selectively infringe on my 2A rights.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 10:40 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:They’re not which is why in multiple posts I’ve compared them to my own friends and family who have lots of guns, CCW permits, including my little mother, legally blind in one eye, with severe Rheumatoid Arthritis, who is apparently not only a sharpshooter, but a better shooter than my uncles who are avid hunters, one who had his own pheasant farms and goes to Alaska and out west on big game (I think moose, could be wrong) hunting trips.
don't agree. It's not a coincidence that folks like Feinstein and Cicilline throw around "right wing gun nuts" like that's what all gun owners are.
But just like most block people aren’t creating TikTok or Instagram videos waving their guns around, often trying to make a terrible rap video, they’re both indicative of a broader cultural issue that treats guns like toys and status symbols. And in this case, it’s not just some random person, it’s multiple US House of Representatives. And too often kids see this, and instead of being terrified of guns and what they can do, they see them more like the toy cap guns most of us played with as kids.
Teaching kids gun safety and the seriousness of them is good, but acting like they’re toys and status symbols, they absolutely antithetical to that.
This post was edited on 2/14/23 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 2/14/23 at 10:44 pm to buckeye_vol
Explain to me how , other than being on a Campus, how this is different from every other Monday in Chicago?
Posted on 2/14/23 at 10:48 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
They’re not
Right, which is exactly why culture and policy are not independent of each other...
quote:
instead of being terrified of guns
Why would we want that? Kids should be educated and trained, not terrified into thinking guns are something they aren't. That's no better than treating them as "status symbols or toys."
Posted on 2/14/23 at 10:55 pm to CamdenTiger
quote:I mean Chicago is considerably safer than New Orleans and probably Baton Rouge, but regardless, yet crime is pretty concentrated to high poverty area where lots of rival gangs and drug dealers go at each other. But usually when an innocent bystander gets caught up in it, the news become a little more newsworthy.
Explain to me how , other than being on a Campus, how this is different from every other Monday in Chicago?
Even then, do you not see a difference in high crime cities like New Orleans and Baton Rouge, if someone went in and started murdering people in buildings on LSU or Tulane campuses? Look at the (justifiable) outrage when that LSU student got killed by a car, after she got let out of a car where she was believed to be raped.
By your logic, how is that any different than any Monday in Baton Rouge, and she is at one student who probably wasn’t actually intentionally murdered by the car who hit her? But I understand the outrage, as it’s justified, but if using your logic here, it might not be so understandable.
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