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Started By
Message
re: Mass shooting at Atlanta area high school
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:06 am to upgrayedd
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:06 am to upgrayedd
quote:
If you think it ends there, you’re sorely mistaken.
What else is there? The father, assuming he doesn't off himself (which I think is a very real possibility), even with just the manslaughter and child cruelty charges, would go away for a very long time.
The family from what I've heard is poor, so they aren't going to have money. Sure they'll probably lose what little they have just from the legal fees they will incur. It looks like they have other children as well. My guess is they lose all custody and either go into the foster system or go under the care of someone in the extended family. I don't see what else would happen.
The FBI could come under fire because of the prior incident, but from what I see they followed their procedures. There wasn't anything to justify any further actions and their hands were tied.
Yes many will say the FBI should have confiscated the guns but eventually the father would've gotten them back anyway. Plus again that sets a larger dangerous precedent.
This post was edited on 9/7/24 at 11:09 am
1
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:07 am to upgrayedd
If the parents are directly responsible/complicit in their kids' commission of a crime, you're Goddamn right they should be held responsible.
I don't know why you're getting your panties in a wad over this. That's a big problem today, people not being held responsible/accountable for anything.
I don't know why you're getting your panties in a wad over this. That's a big problem today, people not being held responsible/accountable for anything.
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:12 am to lsupride87
quote:
Did they buy their kid brads knuckles after being told the kid liked to fight?
Did this guy buy this gun so his kid could shoot up a school?
This is going to be used as an end around to enact gun control. I guarantee it.
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:13 am to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
If the parents are directly responsible/complicit in their kids' commission of a crime, you're Goddamn right they should be held responsible. I don't know why you're getting your panties in a wad over this. That's a big problem today, people not being held responsible/accountable for anything.
The fact that you people don’t see the slippery slope you’re creating is mind blowing.
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:14 am to upgrayedd
quote:
Did this guy buy this gun so his kid could shoot up a school?
He bought it knowing that his kid had those intentions, and right after they were both grilled by the FBI and local authorities. That makes him complicit, and stupid.
quote:
This is going to be used as an end around to enact gun control.
Jesus Christ
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:14 am to upgrayedd
I like how you don't wanna.hold people accountable
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:14 am to MountaineerPatriot
quote:
What else is there?
Using this case to enact gun control without passing an explicit gun control law.
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:16 am to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
I like how you don't wanna.hold people accountable
The kid who pulled the trigger is in jail
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:29 am to upgrayedd
quote:
The kid who pulled the trigger is in jail
And the dad who supplied the rifle who's trigger was pulled by the kid is in jail like he should be.
You're not good with cause and effect, are you?
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:36 am to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
And the dad who supplied the rifle who's trigger was pulled by the kid is in jail like he should be. You're not good with cause and effect, are you?
You’re not good with unintended consequences are you?
It’s fascinating that you think this case won’t be used as broadly as possible by overzealous prosecutors.
Remember the Zimmerman trial? The prosecution tried charging him with child abuse. Luckily the judge threw it out, but that’s the kind of people that we have in charge of the justice system. All it’s going to take is the right combination of judges and prosecutors to completely pervert this precedent.
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:53 am to upgrayedd
Well the only way this shite will stop is if parents are held responsible when they had every means to be able to and didn't or contributed to it.
Posted on 9/7/24 at 11:55 am to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
And the dad who supplied the rifle who's trigger was pulled by the kid is in jail like he should be.
You're not good with cause and effect, are you?
Assuming you are in Georgia and it's understandable you are emotional. As much as we like to treat these horrible events as equal, it's always worse when it's in your back yard. But remember that Liberals are trying to prey on that emotion. They could care less about the kids and teachers who died, just on their agenda.
I don't think anyone here is really defending the dad. He made a terrible mistake and seemed to have very poor judgement in general. The dad should pay for that mistake. I think a lot of us are simply trying to see the bigger picture as well.
We seem to agree on most of this. I think the only area we might disagree is the idea of responsible/complicit. I think the dad is responsible in that he supplied the riffle to a kid who had no business having a weapon. The dad is NOT complicit in the actual shooting, at least based off the information available to the public.
That's why the second degree murder charges concern me. That requires the dad to be complicit and actively involved in the shooting. Did the dad know about the shooting a day or two before or even the morning of and do nothing? Did the dad know about the shooting and help the shooter out with scoping out sites and how to do it? Did the shooter tell his dad "hey it's Labor Day, I'm going to shoot up the school on Wednesday" and the dad did nothing?
If any of those are true then yes the dad is complicit and the second degree murder charges would be appropriate, as you could say the dad was an accessory to murder. And maybe one of those is the case and we don't know it yet.
But outside of actively knowing there was an eminent threat and doing nothing, or actively helping with the shooting, the dad was not complicit. Responsible yes, but not complicit.
Let's look at the end game here for liberals. Liberals would love to make it a crime for anyone under 18 not only to buy a firearm (which they already can't do) but to even hold a weapon, shoot a weapon or in any way be involved with a weapon.
Liberals see no difference between this situation and a family who takes his 16 year old son hunting. That father might do everything right. He might secure the weapon when it's not in use. The son might not have any access to the weapon except when under the supervision of the dad. And the weapon might only be used for hunting. To many liberals though that dad is just as bad as the dad here.
The end goal is to make owning a weapon essentially illegal if you have any kid under 18 in the house. Even if it's completely secured. They will make it to where anything that happens with the weapon and the kid, the parent will face the same charges.
Let's use the gang example again. Say a dad has a son who is in a gang and is 17. Let's say the father owns a gun but has it secured with a code the son doesn't know, therefore the son does not have access to the gun. Let's say that dad doesn't even know the son is in a gang. Now let's say 1 night the son is able to crack the safe and get access to the gun and kill someone. As far as many liberals are concerned, that parent is responsible and should face the exact same consequences.
Again something like that would never pass in Congress, but that is the slippery slope many here are concerned about, and it's absolutely what could happen. They could essentially ban any adult (without legally banning it) from having any weapon in a house as long as there is a kid under 18 in the house. No consideration of the situation or the security of the weapon.
The dad in this case was terrible and an idiot. But a lot of don't want to see politicians use a tragedy like this to essentially ban kids under 18 from using a weapon in a controlled environment (such as hunting or at a gun range) or worse, essentially ban adults from having a weapon in the house if there is any kid under 18.
Posted on 9/7/24 at 12:01 pm to MountaineerPatriot
Going back to the trial part, they better have good evidence of being complicit for a conviction on any murder charge.
Personally, just for me as an observer. If I was on this jury and had the information I have now (obviously they will have more but just based off of the information we have available at this point), I would personally vote GUILTY and convict on the manslaughter and the cruelty to children charges. I would vote NOT GUILTY on the second degree murder charges unless information comes out showing he was complicit (either knowing of an eminent threat or directly helping with the shooting such as helping with planning).
Personally, just for me as an observer. If I was on this jury and had the information I have now (obviously they will have more but just based off of the information we have available at this point), I would personally vote GUILTY and convict on the manslaughter and the cruelty to children charges. I would vote NOT GUILTY on the second degree murder charges unless information comes out showing he was complicit (either knowing of an eminent threat or directly helping with the shooting such as helping with planning).
Posted on 9/7/24 at 12:13 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
Well the only way this shite will stop is if parents are held responsible when they had every means to be able to and didn't or contributed to it.
People like you give the state an inch because your emotions get the best of you then bitch when they take a mile.
Posted on 9/7/24 at 12:18 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
People like you give the state an inch because your emotions get the best of you then bitch when they take a mile.
History proves whatever power is given to the state will (1) expand and (2) be abused. It’s as certain as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west.
Posted on 9/7/24 at 12:21 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
History proves whatever power is given to the state will (1) expand and (2) be abused. It’s as certain as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west.
I’m so sick of the mentality. It’s weak and pathetic.
Posted on 9/7/24 at 12:29 pm to upgrayedd
I’m still baffled by the whole school shooting phenomenon. Apparently they’re always caused by kids being “bullied”. But I promise you, bullying was way worse in the 70s and 80s. There’s always been bullies. That’s not new. And we had far easier access to firearms then than most kids do today. Guns haven’t changed. That’s not new either. But school shootings were virtually unheard of then.
So, bullying hasn’t changed and guns haven’t changed. Then the question is, what has actually changed. Answer that question and you get to the root cause of school shootings.
So, bullying hasn’t changed and guns haven’t changed. Then the question is, what has actually changed. Answer that question and you get to the root cause of school shootings.
This post was edited on 9/7/24 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 9/7/24 at 12:33 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
So, bullying hasn’t changed and guns haven’t changed. Then the question is, what has actually changed. Answer that question and you get to the root cause of school shootings.
The destabilizing of and ambivalence towards mental health and the manifestation of social media.
Posted on 9/7/24 at 12:44 pm to PJinAtl
Will be an unpopular but thats nothing new for me.
I like the fact they’re charging the father as well. He provided a firearm to a minor, which in itself I do not have a problem with but he left that firearm in a situation where the minor could take possession of it without his being present to oversee its use.
I hope the charges are upheld and carried to justice and not dropped because of NRA and other so called pro gun groups pressure.
True pro-gun rights people desperately need to start separating themselves from these irresponsible firearms owners.
I like the fact they’re charging the father as well. He provided a firearm to a minor, which in itself I do not have a problem with but he left that firearm in a situation where the minor could take possession of it without his being present to oversee its use.
I hope the charges are upheld and carried to justice and not dropped because of NRA and other so called pro gun groups pressure.
True pro-gun rights people desperately need to start separating themselves from these irresponsible firearms owners.
This post was edited on 9/7/24 at 4:10 pm
Posted on 9/7/24 at 2:30 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
Well the only way this shite will stop is if parents are held responsible when they had every means to be able to and didn't or contributed to it.
Parents have been charged for their kids bringing weapons to school for years now. Why hasn't it stopped already?
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