re: Little Rock Airport Executive Director Injured After Shootout with ATF (Update - now dead)

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Why do you think arresting him at the airport would have had a better outcome?

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The airport is filled with law enforcement and agencies all over the damn place. You could just get this guy while he is walking around work with 2 law enforcement officers. They could be dressed as tsa, airport security, hell airport garbage collectors in the terminals.

Nah we have to break out our toys for a 6am raid on a guy thats dealing weapons and likely will start shooting because muh 3 letter agency justice.

Reminds me of the To Catch A Predator episode where the cops had a dude in a ghillie suit to nab the 150 lb sicko

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So you'd try to arrest a dude that's probably armed and can see you coming in the general public?

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You dont go at him like an obvious arrest. This guy works at an airport. He is around plenty of people all day long at work. Two guys could be dressed up as any of the workers that this guy is around at work and apprehend him. Breaking into his house at 6am as the best option is ridiculous.

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Again, you want him to start shooting in public?

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You do it right, a shot isnt fired. If theyve been following this guy that long, especially around work, there should be a way to get close to him so he doesnt pull out his bazooka from his back pocket.

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DisplacedBuckeye

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Are you in law enforcement or deal with these types of arrests?

I genuinely dont know what you do

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Are you in law enforcement or deal with these types of arrests?

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I have direct experience, yes.

I figure law enforcement will sometimes make arrests like this in street clothes so the guy being apprehended doesnt see it coming.

Lets assume this was a no knock raid. Following this very paranoid guy with a large amount of guns seems like a last resort to break into his house to 'arrest' him.

You cant have people outside the house and rush him as he goes to his car for work? He goes for anything, just shoot him.

I dont understand how the law protects me if a guy kicks in my door at night, rushes at me, and I shoot him dead in defense but cops can do the same exact thing that the dead robber did and somehow it is allowed.

I am sleeping tonight and they do a no knock raid on the wrong house. I wake up scared as shite and grab my gun and shoot at them and I get blown away. What if I kill a cop and I do live through the ordeal? I bet my life would be a living hell

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So, would you admit that along with your experience, you probably also have a bias?

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I didn't say I was LE, so no, I wouldn't say I have a bias.

In fact, I'd bet you couldn't find anyone on this site who's been consistenly more critical of the ATF. I think the organization should be dissolved with any legitimate duties being passed back to the IRS where they belong.

My responses are contained solely to the idiotic notion that they should've served the search warrant on this dude at the grocery story in a ghillie suit or at a traffic stop.

I was just assuming and asking questions because I am not familiar with these situations and you said you have direct experience. Im not trying to solve this case

They could have walked into this guys office at the airport and detained him while the warrant was served.

They could have had the airport police detain him.

They could have had the airport police call him down to their office and then fed agents could have detained him while the warrant was served.

And before you try and pick my options apart, I have direct knowledge of a very similar case in which an ON-DUTY POLICE OFFICER was the subject of a very similar search warrant. The ATF had the guys supervisor call him to the police HQ. When he walked into his Supervisor's officer there were two ATF agents sitting there and they said "Hello, we are serving a search warrant on your house right now." You are free to leave if you insist but we suggest you sit down and call your lawyer. His supervisor took his weapon and badge and the guy ended up going to jail later that day.

Not sure why everyone assumes this guy is packing a gun in the airport and is going to go Butch and Sundance and shoot it out in the airport. Even on the slim chance he has a gun, there is a tiny chance he is going to pull it. And even in that scenario his gun is concealed and he has to access it. Detain him at gunpoint until you perform a Terry pat down and take the gun.

For that matter, I don't know why they didn't just have someone call him to the secured area of the airport to check a gate or something. Airport employees, except for on-duty law enforcement, have to go through TSA.

I know one thing for sure. Going to his house 100% guarantees he will have a gun. The ONLY time I have known ATF to purposefully confront someone like this on purpose was when they only had an arrest warrant and they wanted to get into the residence and look for evidence on a safety sweep / search incident to arrest and that is some shite that will get thrown out in a heart beat. They had a search warrant, there was zero reason to do it with him in the house. Going down that road, search it while he is at work and seize evidence of the crime. Then call his office and say "get a lawyer and meet us at the courthouse."

Hitting this guy at home was a giant mistake no matter how you spin it.

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could have

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There are a lot of things they could have done.

"Let's grab this dude in traffic or at the grocery store" aren't what they should have done. Neither is "let's try to set him up using people he knows and hope for the best."

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The ATF had the guys supervisor call him to the police HQ.

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Oh boy...

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So, why not do it with a traffic stop?

Because it was a search warrant

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Good lord, thank you.

People are completely misunderstanding exactly what the ATF were doing at his house. They were there to conduct a search, not arrest him at that moment - although he was definitely getting arrested soon.

He was buying and reselling guns to felons for a huge profit - guns that committed multiple murders. He was taking weapons from the airport and selling them to those same felons and gangs.

He was paid to move wanted criminals through security at the airport, as well as items like drugs and guns.

He wasn't some guy that just bought too many rifles because he likes collecting them, and the Feds took notice and raided him. He knew exactly what he was doing and aided in many, many crimes including murder by selling weapons to KNOWN bad people. What did he think he was doing selling illegal guns to gangs and felons?

He knew he was being watched, there's a lot more to that part of the story. He NO DOUBT knew this search warrant was coming, which leads me to believe he wanted to go down this way.

There is still more to this story not being told. He was up to much more than is being reported or in the affidavit