re: Let this be a psa to lock up your guns

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I don't even own a gun safe. Amazingly all three of my kids made it out of HS alive!

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Did you keep a loaded handgun in your house?

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Whoever is downvoting this is just downvoting facts. Now that I think about it, the OT is exactly the kind of place I should expect facts to be downvoted.

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They're downvoting me.

You said:

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a loaded handgun in the nightstand is more likely to be used to kill your kid than it is an intruder.

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For support you link two articles from clearly unbiased sources. One states that for every time a gun ( like the gun has the ability to kill or injure on its own) kills or injures in self defense, there are 4 unintentional injuries or deaths. These stats are not broken down any further. We don't know how many of the self defense injuries or deaths are the result of handgun being used against an intruder and we don't know how many of the unintentional shootings are the result of a child going into his parents nightstand, retrieving a loaded gun and shooting himself or another child.

The second link (also clearly from an unbiased source evidenced by its headline) provides statistics from 4 years ago that shows that for every "justifiable homicide" there are twice as many "unintentional fatalities." Again, these numbers are not broken down any further.

In an attempt to make a connection, you post this

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1 child per 177,000 households where a child and a gun are present is killed unintentionally per year.

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I assume you have a link to this stat? Regardless, does this stat reflect only those children killed unintentionally by a firearm kept loaded in a nightstand which the kid happens to come across?

Even still, your own numbers indicate that a gun is more likely to be used to kill an intruder than used in an accidental child related shooting. You have to use the 5 year average for justifiable homicides to come close to proving your point.

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For support you link two articles from clearly unbiased sources.

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See my edit for the numbers from Pew Research (gun ownership), the CDC (unintentional death of children from firearms), the Violence Policy Center using FBI justifiable homicide numbers (justifiable homicides), and the Census Bureau (households).

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I assume you have a link to this stat?

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It is derived from the numbers above.

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Regardless, does this stat reflect only those children killed unintentionally by a firearm kept loaded in a nightstand which the kid happens to come across?

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No. If you'd like to be technical, it does not distinguish between where the gun was located in the home or property. However, common sense should tell you that loaded guns are far more likely to be the issue compared to guns locked away in a safe and/or unloaded. I can't imagine that is really debatable.

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Even still, your own numbers indicate that a gun is more likely to be used to kill an intruder than used in an accidental child related shooting. You have to use the 5 year average for justifiable homicides to come close to proving your point.

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No, that is not what the numbers say. I gave the justifiable homicide numbers the benefit of the doubt and acted as if EVERY single one was an intruder, but obviously that is not the case. Also, using a 5 year average, when available, is more responsible than using the one year (2012) that was a statistical anomaly with 259 justifiable homicides. That number is 1.58 standard deviations from the 5-year mean.

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No. If you'd like to be technical, it does not distinguish between where the gun was located in the home or property. However, common sense should tell you that loaded guns are far more likely to be the issue compared to guns locked away in a safe and/or unloaded. I can't imagine that is really debatable.

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Sure, but that's not what you said. You said that a loaded gun in your nightstand is more likely to kill your kid than an intruder. Nobody is arguing that a gun locked away is less likely to result in your kid finding the gun and shooting himself or someone else.

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I know you think this makes you some kind of badass ready for war on your cul-de-sac, but it is terribly irresponsible and a slap in the face to practical, responsible gun owners everywhere.

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Yep you're emotional. But I'm not dumb enough to live in a HoA neighborhood.

And I enjoy knowing you think what I'm doing is irresponsible even though you have no clue.

I would be really interested to see some of the demographic breakdown of these accidental shootings. I have a feeling that there is a direct correlation between education level/ socioeconomic status and the rate of gun accidents.

I have no idea how this is a debate. I'm a staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment, and I don't see how others like me can be so obtuse to think it's sane and normal to leave loaded guns around the house and not locked up when there are small kids in the home. Absolute insanity, and it's that mentality that makes the pro-gun crowd seem like nut jobs to a lot of people.

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I would be really interested to see some of the demographic breakdown of these accidental shootings. I have a feeling that there is a direct correlation between education level/ socioeconomic status and the rate of gun accidents.

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You're probably right. On that same token, home invasions with a household member present are significantly less likely for higher income families, people who own their home, married couples, white people, etc.

So while those who are married, have a higher income, own their home, etc. are probably less-likely to experience an unintentional firearm death, they're also much less likely to need said firearm for protection.

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Absolute insanity, and it's that mentality that makes the pro-gun crowd seem like nut jobs to a lot of people.

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I've been saying the same thing for years. The debate should be about facts, not emotions. I own guns. I've got small children. The guns aren't loaded and aren't accessible to the kids. THAT makes me sleep better at night because I understand both risks and there is an unquestionable choice as to which one is safer for my kids.