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re: Lesson from the confederate monument saga
Posted on 12/19/25 at 8:48 pm to HueyLongJr
Posted on 12/19/25 at 8:48 pm to HueyLongJr
Except Lincoln and almost everyone at the start in the Union being on record about not freeing slaves and preserving the Union....man the left are so brainwashed on history... 
1
Posted on 12/19/25 at 9:17 pm to GreenRockTiger
Not at all. My comments are pointed towards those who insist on finding another motive besides slavery for the onset of the Civil War. If you add “because of slavery” to every ‘State’s Rights’ and ‘the economy’, it makes a lot more sense.
Posted on 12/19/25 at 9:19 pm to hansenthered1
quote:
Except Lincoln and almost everyone at the start in the Union being on record about not freeing slaves and preserving the Union....man the left are so brainwashed on history
I’m not defending anyone in the Union. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy of those who insist that the Civil War was really not about slavery.
Posted on 12/19/25 at 9:23 pm to HueyLongJr
quote:but the union’s initial motive was to preserve the union - abolishing slavery came later when they realized the confederacy wasn’t just going to give up
My comments are pointed towards those who insist on finding another motive besides slavery
So the South wanted to keep slavery because of economics but the union wasn’t really worried about slavery at first
Doesn’t that mean it was economical - the south relied on slave labor and the north needed what the south produced
Posted on 12/19/25 at 9:23 pm to HueyLongJr
I thought NO replaced Lee with a 10x12 foot hair pick?
Posted on 12/19/25 at 9:32 pm to GreenRockTiger
I mostly agree with this, but the ‘economics’ you refer to were the economics of slavery. There are no ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys’ here. My criticisms are directed towards the Lost Cause people. The South was wrong on this issue.
Posted on 12/19/25 at 9:37 pm to hansenthered1
quote:
Maybe read a few primary sources on the war
“Cornerstone Speech” from the Confederate VP
quote:
The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution — African slavery as it exists amongst us — the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew." Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. [Applause.] This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
Multiple things can be correct. The South felt that they had the right to secede. Southerners had seen the federal government favor the interests of northern states for decades. Most southerners did not own slaves. They did not fight and die to keep slaves. In one way it was a lost cause, because the South wasn’t going to win unless the North just gave up. However, the main factor in the lead up to secession was preserving slavery.
This post was edited on 12/19/25 at 9:58 pm
Posted on 12/19/25 at 9:43 pm to alajones
Abe Lincoln:
""My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that"
The war was not fought to free slaves it was fought to preserve the union. The south left to prevent a tyrant Federal Government from dictating to them on the issue of slavery. The South was dumb to leave and fight but they left to be free of the power of the Federal Gov.
Those that think the Civil War was fought to free slaves are just plain wrong.
The best analogy would be if the abortionist states left the union to prevent abortion from being outlawed and faced a union who fought them to keep the union until after 2 or 3 years when it became a political advantage to make it about the killing of unborn babies and then later folks to say the whole thing was about stopping abortion. The Yankees only trotted out emancipation once it became a viable tool to defeat the north politically. Before that the leadership of the Union needed to try and make it less about fighting for black freedom as that issue was never popular with the the Yankees who fought the war.
""My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that"
The war was not fought to free slaves it was fought to preserve the union. The south left to prevent a tyrant Federal Government from dictating to them on the issue of slavery. The South was dumb to leave and fight but they left to be free of the power of the Federal Gov.
Those that think the Civil War was fought to free slaves are just plain wrong.
The best analogy would be if the abortionist states left the union to prevent abortion from being outlawed and faced a union who fought them to keep the union until after 2 or 3 years when it became a political advantage to make it about the killing of unborn babies and then later folks to say the whole thing was about stopping abortion. The Yankees only trotted out emancipation once it became a viable tool to defeat the north politically. Before that the leadership of the Union needed to try and make it less about fighting for black freedom as that issue was never popular with the the Yankees who fought the war.
This post was edited on 12/19/25 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 12/19/25 at 9:44 pm to Mung
quote:almost all of my family were share croppers, cotton pickers, and/or ditch diggers.
Well sure honey, the economics of slave labor vs paid labor. Whitey wasn’t going to start paying all those Irish a living wage to harvest cotton and sugar cane when they could just buy slaves to do it. Just read all the secession declarations.
The slaves were worth more than any Irishman coming off the boat because the slave was property that could be bought, sold, or traded. Buying, keeping, and housing slaves cost more than hiring a Mick. Don’t forget that most slaves were treated decently because they were valuable property. There were terrible slave owners, but they were not the majority.
quote:um, you don’t think WWI & WWII were about economics and power?
The idea that 100s of thousands of men would fight and die over “economics” is kind of laughable.
Posted on 12/19/25 at 9:46 pm to T1gerNate
a-hole……Hypocrite…Mitch….. The Jesuit’s owned over 22000 Slaves in the 1800’s. Why did he not close. Jesuit H. S.??
Confederate Soldiers are. “U.S. Veterans”.
.
Posted on 12/19/25 at 9:49 pm to hansenthered1
quote:I don’t know what this means, but I bet you post on the Poli Board a lot.
the monilial prog left
The Gettysburg Address clearly shows that the motivations for continuing the war evolved.
My post was intended to address the ridiculous and far to often reported mantra that the south didn’t fight the war over slavery. Not necessarily just aimed at you.
Posted on 12/19/25 at 9:55 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
SoFla Tide Roller
Excellent post
Posted on 12/19/25 at 10:00 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:what demographic does the south possess the most off in this country
and the South is generally the fattest and dumbest region in the country.
Posted on 12/19/25 at 10:02 pm to alajones
Tell me when the Gettysburg Address was.....
The whole shift to making it about slavery was only after the Union had won in the field to the point they could solidify their moral position behind ending a institution that was morally repugnant to potential CSA allies.
Again, if you think that in 1861 most who went to war against the sought were doing so to free the slave you are brainwashed.
Never mind the NORTH had three slave states in existence after the South had surrendered in 1865. The last black slave owned by a white man was freed after the CSA had ceased to exist. Never mind those slaved owned by Indians, who we seem to forget as being slavers
The whole shift to making it about slavery was only after the Union had won in the field to the point they could solidify their moral position behind ending a institution that was morally repugnant to potential CSA allies.
Again, if you think that in 1861 most who went to war against the sought were doing so to free the slave you are brainwashed.
Never mind the NORTH had three slave states in existence after the South had surrendered in 1865. The last black slave owned by a white man was freed after the CSA had ceased to exist. Never mind those slaved owned by Indians, who we seem to forget as being slavers
This post was edited on 12/19/25 at 10:06 pm
Posted on 12/19/25 at 10:34 pm to T1gerNate
I'm just tossing this out to see the "the war was about slavery" crowd's heads explode.
At the time of the Confederate bombardment of Fort Sumter how many slaves states were in the Confederacy and how many were in the USA?
Let me help you.
Confederacy: Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina.
USA: Missouri, Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware. If the District of Columbia had been a state then you could add it too.
The last slave auction in America was in Delaware after Lee had surrendered.
At the time of the Confederate bombardment of Fort Sumter how many slaves states were in the Confederacy and how many were in the USA?
Let me help you.
Confederacy: Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina.
USA: Missouri, Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware. If the District of Columbia had been a state then you could add it too.
The last slave auction in America was in Delaware after Lee had surrendered.
Posted on 12/19/25 at 10:38 pm to HueyLongJr
I'm not saying the South did not leave, stupidly, over what they saw was a threat to the issue of slavery but rather that the North fought the South in the Civil War to preserve the union not to free slaves
This post was edited on 12/19/25 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 12/19/25 at 10:42 pm to T1gerNate
Just another front in the attempt to erase Whites.
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