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Started By
Message
re: "Leaky" vaccines= worsening viruses
Posted on 8/17/21 at 9:37 am to mouton
Posted on 8/17/21 at 9:37 am to mouton
quote:
It is pretty obvious that the anti-vaxxers on this site are the ones obsessed.
Were you pressured or compelled to take the vax? Why are the vax hesitant being pressured to get the vax? Why, when an anti-vax story is posted, is the poster always shamed for being scared of the vax? Maybe, some healthy people are not scared of the virus or fear porn.
In every scientific experiment, you need a control group. Some of us are content being the control group
3
Posted on 8/17/21 at 9:46 am to ds_engineer
quote:The problem I have with this is that I had to cover for the "control group" for pretty much the entire month of July while your group was away from work because of having Covid. And a couple of those cases were pretty serious in the hospital.
In every scientific experiment, you need a control group. Some of us are content being the control group
And of all those "control group" cases, 4 of the 5 are now saying they will get the vaccine now when they can. So in other words, they don't want to be the "control" anymore.
This post was edited on 8/17/21 at 9:47 am
Posted on 8/17/21 at 9:46 am to ds_engineer
quote:
Were you pressured or compelled to take the vax?
Nope. I took it because I would rather not get sick, rather not possible lose my sense of smell and taste, and would not want to get is and spread it to an elderly person or someone with a compromised immune system.
Posted on 8/17/21 at 9:56 am to ds_engineer
quote:Because anti-vaxxers are dragging this thing out.
Why are the vax hesitant being pressured to get the vax?
quote:Because there's really no reason not to get it other than fear.
Why, when an anti-vax story is posted, is the poster always shamed for being scared of the vax?
quote:We don't care if you're scared or not. We just want this shite over.
Maybe, some healthy people are not scared of the virus or fear porn.
quote:There was a control group in the vax trials. They didn't fare nearly as well as the vaxxed group.
In every scientific experiment, you need a control group. Some of us are content being the control group
Posted on 8/17/21 at 10:31 am to lsupride87
quote:
Only now did it mutate to mean something that doesn’t present itself at all for years and then BAM! just appears
When we hear pathologists describing how spike proteins (intended consequences) are attaching themselves to tissues not originally intended , then the delay of effects seems plausible. Prior vaccines did not use spike proteins, correct?
What’s up with the 25% increase in stroke and cardiac arrest in Israel?
Posted on 8/17/21 at 10:32 am to Korkstand
quote:
Because anti-vaxxers are dragging this thing out.
Wrong. We've been living our lives throughout this mess.
quote:
Because there's really no reason not to get it other than fear.
There is a multitude of reasons. Already had covid and have antibodies, early middle age and healthy, BMI well within range of tolerability, not scared of a virus with a 99.8% survivability.
quote:
We don't care if you're scared or not. We just want this shite over
You're vaccinated. You are safe as far as you know. Leave us alone about it!
quote:
There was a control group in the vax trials. They didn't fare nearly as well as the vaxxed group.
The trials that started with 99% efficacy that now down below 80% with breakthrough cases. How long were these trials you speak of, surely they met the recommended time frame from the FDA
Posted on 8/17/21 at 10:44 am to mouton
quote:
and would not want to get is and spread it to an elderly person or someone with a compromised immune system.
Shouldn’t those people be shamed into getting the vaccine? Let’s include fatties and diabetics. They should all be shamed into getting it to a greater extent than the non-fatty, non-diabetic, non-immune comprised vaccine hesitant. Am I wrong?
Posted on 8/17/21 at 10:49 am to Korkstand
quote:
Because anti-vaxxers are dragging this thing out.
While it does appear as though the vaccines keep people out of the hospital, I don’t believe this will turn out to be true with the way “chasing cases” always rears its ugly head and many sentiments of the desired goal being seemingly “zero CoviD.”
Also, take a look at what’s happening in places like California with higher vaccination rates. They still saw the same sort of spike as the rest of the Sun Belt did.
San Francisco has likely peaked at exactly the same amount of hospitalizations in acute care and/or intensive care (111 as of the most recent data) as they did during last summer’s vaccine-less spike.
It ain’t the unvaccinated preventing the world from getting back to normal.
Edit to add: I guess it goes to show you how much more healthy the people of San Francisco are, as all their seem incredibly low for the entirety of this thing.
This post was edited on 8/17/21 at 11:05 am
Posted on 8/17/21 at 10:50 am to ds_engineer
quote:It's the "mess" that's dragging out. If you think your life is not impacted by this, you're wrong.
Wrong. We've been living our lives throughout this mess.
quote:Those are reasons you think you don't need it, not reasons to not get it. Those are justifications for your fear.
There is a multitude of reasons. Already had covid and have antibodies, early middle age and healthy, BMI well within range of tolerability, not scared of a virus with a 99.8% survivability.
quote:That's not how vaccines work. And regardless of whether I'm "safe" or not, I'm not concerned about my health. I'm concerned about getting shite running smoothly again. I wish more Americans would.
You're vaccinated. You are safe as far as you know. Leave us alone about it!
quote:Immunity wears off with vaccines just as it does with natural immunity, but in either case some is better than nothing and more is better than less.
The trials that started with 99% efficacy that now down below 80% with breakthrough cases.
Posted on 8/17/21 at 10:52 am to Korkstand
quote:
Because anti-vaxxers are dragging this thing out.
So you don’t think it’s the virus that’s dragging this thing out?
The Delta variant originated in India. Data shows a higher resistance to the vaccine than prior variants. Did the US vaccine hesitant population cause that to happen?
The Lambda variant originated in Peru. Data seems to show an even higher resistance to the vaccines than the Delta variant. Did the US vaccine hesitant population cause that to happen?
Now the vaccinated may be pressured into getting a 3rd booster injection. You up for another round of spike proteins injected into your system? What’s the long term consequences of that unprecedented unnatural trigger to your immune system? To better study and understand that question, don’t we need a control group?
Posted on 8/17/21 at 10:59 am to LSU316
quote:
Umm. No. “Vaccine failure” means the vaccine failed to prevent the vaccinated. In the context of the linked study you are incorrect. I understand that your opinion of what a vaccine is supposed to do is different from the study.
I’ve been wrong before so I’m not saying it isn’t possible but not sure how you can read this and draw a different conclusion than what I did.
Quote From the study:
“Vaccine failure in the face of virulent pathogens has been documented for at least two viruses other than MDV”
Posted on 8/17/21 at 11:02 am to Sasquatch Smash
quote:It will be a lot harder to get the people behind any sort of mandate if hospitalizations and deaths don't follow cases.
While it does appear as though the vaccines keep people out of the hospital, I don’t believe this will turn out to be true with the way “chasing cases” always rears its ugly head and many sentiments of the desire goal being seemingly “zero CoviD.”
quote:It's hard to compare data this way because everything is different. Different levels of natural and vaccine immunity in the population, different levels of existing case numbers, different strains. And it's hard to argue counter-factuals and "what ifs" (what if people were vaccinated last year, what if they weren't this year, what if delta was around last year). The assumption is that delta is more contagious but less harmful than other strains, but is there real evidence for that? It seems to be impacting younger groups harder. Is that just the nature of it, or would it hit all ages harder if older people weren't vaccinated at higher rates?
Also, take a look at what’s happening in places like California with higher vaccination rates. They still saw the same sort of spike as the rest of the Sun Belt did.
San Francisco has likely peaked at exactly the same amount of hospitalizations (111 as of the most recent data) as they did during last summer’s vaccine-less spike.
quote:The unvaccinated are far more likely to be hospitalized. I may be wrong, but I would imagine that if people weren't ending up in the hospital then leadership would be less reactionary.
It ain’t the unvaccinated preventing the world from getting back to normal.
Posted on 8/17/21 at 11:08 am to RealityTiger
quote:
If you're worried about getting vaccinated because you don't know 100% across the board what you're putting in your body nor do you know 100% what potential good/harm it could do for any of your organs and bodily functions, then don't put any other medication in your body. Because that logic holds true for everything you ingest
The drama. You’re being ridiculous.
People can be consistent on this issue. So many commonly used prescription meds have been around and have been studied for 20+ years. Acetaminophen was discovered in the 1800s. Ibuprofen was introduced about 50 years ago.
There’s a magnitude of difference between vaccine hesitancy for mRNA vaccines and OTC meds and many prescription meds. You will not advance an intelligent conversation by conflating them.
Posted on 8/17/21 at 11:10 am to Korkstand
The hubris of people who think they can micromanage evolution is really funny to me.
Least of all hit a homerun on their first at bat in the majors.
Beta test with a new tech made by an imperfect species with profit as, at least, a main motivator VS. 100,000 years of evolutionarily tuned immune system function fighting a disease with a 99.95% survivability.
There will be fallout from this. There always is. And people claiming to blindly trust the science are no better than cult leaders saying to trust the scripture/gold plates/tea leaves.
Least of all hit a homerun on their first at bat in the majors.
Beta test with a new tech made by an imperfect species with profit as, at least, a main motivator VS. 100,000 years of evolutionarily tuned immune system function fighting a disease with a 99.95% survivability.
There will be fallout from this. There always is. And people claiming to blindly trust the science are no better than cult leaders saying to trust the scripture/gold plates/tea leaves.
Posted on 8/17/21 at 11:15 am to Korkstand
quote:
I may be wrong, but I would imagine that if people weren't ending up in the hospital then leadership would be less reactionary.
Public health initiatives are based on trust. If people do not trust the motivations then sweeping initiatives will always fail. Leaders and their useful idiot mouthpieces should reflect on how/why they failed to build trust rather than blaming the public for lacking trust.
Posted on 8/17/21 at 11:16 am to Korkstand
quote:
It seems to be impacting younger groups harder.
This seems to apply to both the vaccine and the lack of vaccine.
Increase myocarditis in our youth by injecting them with these vaccines in order to lessen their Covid symptoms? What’s the better long term play?
Posted on 8/17/21 at 11:21 am to Willie Stroker
quote:
So you don’t think it’s the virus that’s dragging this thing out?
Yeah bro that's why we're trying to get rid of it. Some are, at least.
quote:Ok.
The Delta variant originated in India.
quote:Yeah, the vaccines were designed for earlier variants.
Data shows a higher resistance to the vaccine than prior variants.
quote:It was probably caused by the large unvaccinated population in India.
Did the US vaccine hesitant population cause that to happen?
quote:Ok.
The Lambda variant originated in Peru.
quote:See above.
Data seems to show an even higher resistance to the vaccines than the Delta variant.
quote:It was probably caused by the large unvaccinated population in Peru.
Did the US vaccine hesitant population cause that to happen?
You've given two examples of vaccine-resistant variants popping up in countries with low vaccination rates. What point are you trying to make? Do you want to figure the odds of the unvaccinated population in the US creating a new variant?
quote:"Pressured".
Now the vaccinated may be pressured into getting a 3rd booster injection.
quote:Why not? Hundreds of millions of man-years of living after them says it's not a problem.
You up for another round of spike proteins injected into your system?
quote:How long is "long term" IYO? It's been over a year for some folks.
What’s the long term consequences of that unprecedented unnatural trigger to your immune system?
Regardless, since fear of the vaccine seems to be your issue, the data says you should be more scared of the virus and its immediate and long term consequences.
quote:You just named two large control groups in India and Peru.
To better study and understand that question, don’t we need a control group?
Posted on 8/17/21 at 11:27 am to Korkstand
Korkstand, you do realize that it's people like you with your non-stop argument and shaming that are pushing the vax-hesitant to dig their heels in. The arguing and shaming route isn't going to convince anyone to run and get the vax.
And, I dare you guys to try and force it
And, I dare you guys to try and force it
Posted on 8/17/21 at 11:31 am to Willie Stroker
quote:Clearly not the case.quote:This seems to apply to both the vaccine and the lack of vaccine.
It seems to be impacting younger groups harder.
quote:You think myocarditis is more of a risk after the vaccine than after a covid infection?
Increase myocarditis in our youth by injecting them with these vaccines in order to lessen their Covid symptoms?
quote:The vaccine.
What’s the better long term play?
Posted on 8/17/21 at 11:33 am to ds_engineer
quote:I know, heel-digging is childish and childish people will be childish. I can't do anything about that. Might as well have some fun with it.
Korkstand, you do realize that it's people like you with your non-stop argument and shaming that are pushing the vax-hesitant to dig their heels in. The arguing and shaming route isn't going to convince anyone to run and get the vax.
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