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Started By
Message
re: Iowa baw gets 16 years for burning LGBT flag
Posted on 12/20/19 at 12:47 pm to FightnBobLafollette
Posted on 12/20/19 at 12:47 pm to FightnBobLafollette
quote:
Not when you steal it. Why is this confusing to you?
Again Bob
1. Sentenced 15 years for the hate crime (This is a fact).
2. Theft was not mentioned regarding this penalty (Also a
fact).
3. Whether he stole the flag or not is not an issue
regaring this sanction and does not contravene his
first amendment rights.
The two issues are not one in
the same.
3
Posted on 12/20/19 at 12:50 pm to cyarrr
quote:
. Theft was not mentioned regarding this penalty (Also a
fact).
You want him charged with petty theft too?
Posted on 12/20/19 at 12:55 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Not that I agree with him, but burning a flag has been ruled a form of protest by the Supreme Court.
You can't threaten and harass people and destroy their property or randomly start fires in public.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 12:55 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
You want him charged with petty theft too?
Sure do, especially If it would provide clarity to those who are having difficulty understanding the first amendment.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 12:56 pm to cyarrr
quote:
Sure do, especially If it would provide clarity to those who are having difficulty understanding the first amendment.
He was not charged with a first Amendment violation.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:01 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
Is burning a LGBT flag a protected right?
Why wouldnt it be?
Is burning a Christian flag a protected right? A rebel flag? yes and yes
Sooo...what makes LGBT unique among other protected groups?
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:02 pm to theunknownknight
Is burning someone else's LGBT flag illegal?
I'm trying to explain how his charges make sense.
I'm trying to explain how his charges make sense.
This post was edited on 12/20/19 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:04 pm to fightin tigers
Yea it's called petty theft and destruction of property and is a misdemeanor
What was he charged and sentenced with again?
This isn't hard.
What was he charged and sentenced with again?
This isn't hard.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:04 pm to theunknownknight
The mere act of burning a flag to make a political statement in and of itself is protected. It's an act of "speech", theoretically.
But it's not necessarily protected when it's someone else's property being burned, when the act is accompanied by threats of violence/harassment and/or if there is a local ordinance or law against starting fires in public without a permit.
But it's not necessarily protected when it's someone else's property being burned, when the act is accompanied by threats of violence/harassment and/or if there is a local ordinance or law against starting fires in public without a permit.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:06 pm to theunknownknight
It's arson. Which, if it was a garden gnome I would agree with misdemeanor.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:06 pm to lsu2006
Sure. But actually READ what he's sentenced for. It legally incongruent.
No way this stands on appeal..
No way this stands on appeal..
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:07 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
What was he charged and sentenced with again?
Arson, third degree harassment and reckless use of fire, which in this context is a hate crime under Iowa law because it was directed against a person or persons or their property because of their sexual orientation.
This post was edited on 12/20/19 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:07 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Not that I agree with him, but burning a flag has been ruled a form of protest by the Supreme Court.
If it were
he'd be applauded 
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:08 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
No way this stands on appeal..
On what grounds?
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:09 pm to lsu2006
quote:
Arson, third degree harassment and reckless use of fire, which in this context is a hate crime under Iowa law because it was directed against a person or persons or their property because of their sexual orientation.
So by that logic burning your exwife's clothes because she slept with another man falls under the same sentencing
You dont see how absurd this logic is in the real world?
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:10 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Sure. But actually READ what he's sentenced for. It legally incongruent.
He was sentenced for arson and related charges and he met all the criteria for a hate crime.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:10 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
So by that logic burning your exwife's clothes because she slept with another man falls under the same sentencing
Arson, yes.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:11 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
So by that logic burning your exwife's clothes because she slept with another man falls under the same sentencing
No. That in no way points to you committing that crime against her or her property due to her race, gender, sexuality, nationality, etc.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:13 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
He was sentenced for arson and related charges
The arson and related charges on a flag alone net him probation. That's it.
It's the TYPE of flag that netted him 16 years.
quote:
and he met all the criteria for a hate crime
Which is what specifically in this case?
Please defend "hate crimes" constitutionally and legally in this specific case as opposed to something like a Christian flag.
This post was edited on 12/20/19 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 12/20/19 at 1:15 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
He was not charged with a first Amendment violation.
I would hope not; it was his first amendment right that was violated.
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