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Message
re: In today's WTF school news- 5 year old suspended for bringing bubble gun to clas
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:04 am to Antonio Moss
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:04 am to Antonio Moss
Moss, read my other post above yours where I clarified it further. Saying the punishment is ridiculous is fine, but arguing that it is ridiculous because the toy doesn't even look like a real gun is wrong. Treat all the toy guns the same. That's my argument.
1
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:10 am to slackster
quote:
Moss, read my other post above yours where I clarified it further. Saying the punishment is ridiculous is fine, but arguing that it is ridiculous because the toy doesn't even look like a real gun is wrong.
Disagree.
quote:
Treat all the toy guns the same. That's my argument.
Nope. Context is incredibly important. The situation where 12 year old kid brings a plastic gun that looks real and he pops off the orange dip and starts pointing it at other kids at recess is much, much different than a 5 year old girl who brings a bubble gun with a picture of a Disney princess on the side to school and she and her friends chase bubbles at recess.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:12 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
You could be charged with armed robbery if you stick your hand in your jacket pocket and make it look like you've got a gun. Should we cut your hands off just in case?
should we cut a little kids hand off if they do it on recess?
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:18 am to Topwater Trout
stop calling it a bubble gun. It doesn't shoot shite. It's a hand held automatic bubble blower.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:19 am to slackster
quote:
but the idea that the school should treat it on a case by case basis is a slippery slope
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:21 am to slackster
Because all of those things are the exact same thing.
I love the "where is the line??" People who then equate something obviously not over the line to something obviously over the line.
In short, your argument sucks.
I love the "where is the line??" People who then equate something obviously not over the line to something obviously over the line.
In short, your argument sucks.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:22 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
The situation where 12 year old kid brings a plastic gun that looks real and he pops off the orange dip and starts pointing it at other kids at recess is much, much different than a 5 year old girl who brings a bubble gun with a picture of a Disney princess on the side to school and she and her friends chase bubbles at recess.
I agree, perhaps I'm not being clear. The school board statement seems to imply that with kids her age who brought a toy gun to school, a one day suspension has been par for the course. I took that to mean that it was other toy guns found in the book sacks of 5-6 year olds.
I've got no argument or problem with the punishment being different in your situation. I don't think that is at odds with my consistency argument.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:23 am to slackster
quote:
You're not getting the point.
No I get your point.
quote:
I care about the consistency from the administration
Applying the unique facts of each particular case is not incompatible with consistency and fairness.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:24 am to Jcorye1
quote:
In short, your argument sucks.
, wouldn't be the first time. 
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:24 am to Jcorye1
Dp
This post was edited on 5/19/16 at 10:25 am
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:25 am to SmoothOperator96
quote:
Stupid rule. But rules are rules.
A bubble gun is not a fake gun. It's just a mini bubble machine that's handheld.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:30 am to slackster
quote:
To clarify further, I take issue with the people who are upset because it's just a bubble gun. They seem to imply that if it looked more like a real gun, but was still a toy, they wouldn't have a problem. That is a goofy position IMO.
How can you not understand the VAST differences between the types of toy guns? A water gun or a nerf gun are clearly that...harmless children's toys
An airsoft gun, on the other hand, actually does resemble a real deadly weapon which is capable of sparking fear and panic.
Use your cognitive abilities.
To take the position of "OMG this object in some way, shape, or form vaguely resembles a gun! CALL THE frickING SWAT TEAM BECAUSE I CAN'T BE SURE IT'S NOT A DEADLY WEAPON!!!" is selling your brain short.
What if a kid brought their pet rock to school? Harmless children's trinket? Or deadly weapon? You decide.
This post was edited on 5/19/16 at 10:32 am
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:32 am to biglego
quote:
It's just a mini bubble machine that's handheld.
those bubbles can irritate your eyes though
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:42 am to NYNolaguy1
You gotta be consistent if that's the rule. Colorado public schools likely made a whole host of restrictions, unreasonable or not, after a checkered past.
You'll also get suspended for a cell phone in some schools, untucked shirts in others. This isn't exactly a story
You'll also get suspended for a cell phone in some schools, untucked shirts in others. This isn't exactly a story
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:05 am to Hickok
quote:
You should read the book "the death of common sense"
Excellent read.
Read it several years ago. Actually quoted it to someone last week.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:18 am to Bama323_15
IMO, the "rules are rules" group, although well intentioned, are operating in a dangerous area.
We need people to be willing to use discernment when handing out punishment/discipline. All situations have their own unique variables and we need people to consider each situation on its own, whether that is a judge or school administrator.
Sadly, schools have been labeled inconsistent for using discernment for many years. Many of these seemingly bizarre instances are the result of schools not wanting to seen as inconsistent in how rules applied. Easier to lack common sense than to be labeled inconsistent.
If this student had ben punished because of rule against bringing toys to school...I would have no issue with it. But to hand down punishment based on the zero tolerance weapon policy reeks of someone being afraid to use their own judgment.
Just my opinion. Could be wrong.
We need people to be willing to use discernment when handing out punishment/discipline. All situations have their own unique variables and we need people to consider each situation on its own, whether that is a judge or school administrator.
Sadly, schools have been labeled inconsistent for using discernment for many years. Many of these seemingly bizarre instances are the result of schools not wanting to seen as inconsistent in how rules applied. Easier to lack common sense than to be labeled inconsistent.
If this student had ben punished because of rule against bringing toys to school...I would have no issue with it. But to hand down punishment based on the zero tolerance weapon policy reeks of someone being afraid to use their own judgment.
Just my opinion. Could be wrong.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:19 am to UGATiger26
quote:
How can you not understand the VAST differences between the types of toy guns? A water gun or a nerf gun are clearly that...harmless children's toys An airsoft gun, on the other hand, actually does resemble a real deadly weapon which is capable of sparking fear and panic. Use your cognitive abilities.
I can understand it perfectly, but perhaps you can explain how you'd like to write that as a policy. Are you going to stipulate how much it needs to look like a gun in order for you to give a shite as an administrator? Are you going to ignore the look and only care how it is used? If you're in charge of the policies for an entire school system, you don't have the luxury of just saying "use your best judgment" because that ambiguity is how you get sued.
If you want the administrators to enforce the rules selectively, that is fine by me, but I'm not going to fault them for taking an even, across-the-board approach. Change the rule if you'd like, IDC, but if the rule is that 5-6 year olds with a toy gun at school get sent home for a day, and every kid this year that has brought a toy gun to school has been sent home, including the one in the OP, then I'm not going to use this situation as a reason the whole world is going to shite.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:42 am to C
quote:
Can someone please show me a picture of the real gun this toy is a facsimile of? TIA
Dead ringer for a Vz61 Scorpion if I ever saw one.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:50 am to slackster
quote:
but perhaps you can explain how you'd like to write that as a policy. Are you going to stipulate how much it needs to look like a gun in order for you to give a shite as an administrator?
Yeah, sure.
WEAPONS POLICY
Section 3: Toy and replica weapons
Toy or replica guns and/or other weapon-like objects are not permitted on school grounds under any circumstances. Refer to the following policies regarding disciplinary measures for failing to adhere to this policy.
a) Toys - While not harmful, toy weapons can be a distraction on school grounds and can be used to harass other students. Examples of these types of toys include water guns, bubble guns, "Nerf" guns, and objects which are designed to shoot soft projectiles such as foam darts or balls. Students found to be in possession of these objects will have the toy confiscated until the end of the school day or week. Additionally, the student's parents will be notified. Multiple violations will result in more severe disciplinary measures.
b) Replica Weapons - Objects designed to mimic or replicate deadly weapons and firearms (i.e. airsoft guns or realistic looking plastic guns) have the potential to provoke panic among students, teachers, and administrators. Students who are found to be possession of one these objects will face suspension and possible expulsion.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 11:52 am to UGATiger26
quote:
Yeah, sure.
I can dig it, but I'm not an attorney, and they'll have the final say.
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