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Started By
Message
re: Hypothetical question about the workplace
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:01 pm to Parmen
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:01 pm to Parmen
quote:
Just wondering if it violates the First Amendment to make others say it.
Private entities can censor you as much or as little as they want and it has nothing to do with the first amendment.
0
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:01 pm to alajones
I don’t have anywhere to be.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:01 pm to Parmen
The correct answer is no, an employer cannot force you to recite the pledge, or pray, or anything that doesn't relate to your job duties.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:02 pm to Corkfather
quote:
True, but there is something callled discrimination. If an employer fired someone for refusing to participate in the Pledge, that would be discrimination of political beliefs.
Discrimination laws vary from state to state. The vast majority of states do not have laws protecting employees from discrimination for political beliefs. To my knowledge, only California, New York, and DC have such protections and those are severely limited.
ETA: There is no federal discrimination law that covers political belief either.
This post was edited on 9/24/18 at 8:04 pm
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:03 pm to Corkfather
quote:
If an employer fired someone for refusing to participate in the Pledge, that would be discrimination of political beliefs.
Doubtful that this would be considered a protected class and the company would almost assuredly win a lawsuit.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:08 pm to Antonio Moss
Discrimination based on political belief doesn’t need to be the issue, someone could hypothetically claim national origin as a protected status.
They’d be protected under Title VII.
They’d be protected under Title VII.
This post was edited on 9/24/18 at 8:09 pm
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:11 pm to Corkfather
quote:
Discrimination based on political belief doesn’t need to be the issue, someone could hypothetically claim national origin as a protected status.
Proving discrimination based on anything is ridiculously hard. Arguing that saying the national anthem is akin to discrimination against national origin is a non-starter. To win in that situation, you would have to prove by preponderance of the evidence that the only reason that the employer made his employees say the pledge of alligence was to isolate the employee with the foreign origin.
ETA: Do some research into Title VII. Just waving a hand and claiming discrimination gets you no where. You have prove intent.
This post was edited on 9/24/18 at 8:13 pm
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:12 pm to Corkfather
quote:
Discrimination based on political belief doesn’t need to be the issue, someone could hypothetically claim national origin as a protected status.
There's nothing implicitly political about the pledge.
Think about it this way, don't you think the NFL players would have sued the league and the teams by now if there was merit behind what you're saying?
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:14 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Think about it this way, don't you think the NFL players would have sued the league and the teams by now if there was merit behind what you're saying?
And they have way more protection given the comprehensive players agreement than your typical middle class employee.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:15 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
What about religious connotations?
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:18 pm to Corkfather
quote:
What about religious connotations?
Again, have to prove intent.
Did the employer require employees to say the Pledge for the sole reason of isolating the atheist? If the answer is no, then there is most likely no actionable discrimination.
Like I said before, discrimination is really, really hard to prove.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:19 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
And they have way more protection given the comprehensive players agreement than your typical middle class employee.
Meant to mention that as well. They get to collectively bargain and they still wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on at all
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:47 pm to Antonio Moss
So what possible reason could the employer use to justify forcing all employees to say the Pledge?
Also, it’s not a single atheist being singled out, it could hypothetically be a much larger group that belong to a litany of different religions or have different political affiliations.
I think it would be very interesting to see the Court’s ruling on something like this.
Also, it’s not a single atheist being singled out, it could hypothetically be a much larger group that belong to a litany of different religions or have different political affiliations.
I think it would be very interesting to see the Court’s ruling on something like this.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:53 pm to Parmen
Private company should have the right to fire for whatever reason they wanted. I wouldn't want to work for a company that was over the top about dictating behavior. Nothing against the pledge
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:55 pm to alajones
As disgusting as I would think an employer doing that is I also think it should be their right
Posted on 9/24/18 at 8:57 pm to Corkfather
quote:
So what possible reason could the employer use to justify forcing all employees to say the Pledge?
Because they want to.
quote:
Also, it’s not a single atheist being singled out, it could hypothetically be a much larger group that belong to a litany of different religions or have different political affiliations.
It doesn't matter. As mentioned earlier, they would have to prove that the point of the pledge would be to discriminate against them for their political or religious beliefs. That would be very, very hard and near impossible to prove with the preponderance of evidence.
Posted on 9/24/18 at 9:37 pm to Parmen
quote:
I’m pro-Pledge of Allegiance in the work place. I’m all for patriotism in the workplace. Just wondering if it violates the First Amendment to make others say it.
you also are a young earth creationist and a complete frick tard
Posted on 9/24/18 at 9:48 pm to Parmen
I would show up at 8:55 and kneel everyday.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 4:57 am to Antonio Moss
quote:what other reason would there be ever to say the pledge among adults?
the only reason that the employer made his employees say the pledge of alligence was to isolate the employee with the foreign origin.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 5:25 am to bmy
quote:
you also are a young earth creationist and a complete frick tard
Melt.
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