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re: Humans have gotten faster but horses haven't?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:51 am to tigerdude3232
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:51 am to tigerdude3232
We can't even fix a horse's bones.
0
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:55 am to Aspercel
quote:I'm not really knowledgeable enough to say.
And you have to agree that there isn’t much currently that really excels on dirt beyond a mile and an eighth due to breeding practices, correct?
But with the distance of most races, I assume that the breeders are trying to maximize performance for the existing system.
If we moved most races to a mile and a half, I'd think that the breeding practices would change to conform to that norm.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:56 am to Y.A. Tittle
But the issue is that we aren’t breeding to go that distance anymore, so his times will probably stay.
Maybe we get a pace meltdown soon in the derby (or Preakness). That’s what set up Monarchos to be the only other horse besides Sham and Secretariat to finish in under 2 minutes.
Beholder did it in the pacific classic at the same distance a few years ago against the boys. It can happen. The race shape just needs to be there.
But sprinters are running every bit as fast now as then. I think last year the world record (! Not track, world) was broken at Belmont in a turf sprint.
Just looked it up. 6f in 105 and change last year on Belmont day.
Maybe we get a pace meltdown soon in the derby (or Preakness). That’s what set up Monarchos to be the only other horse besides Sham and Secretariat to finish in under 2 minutes.
Beholder did it in the pacific classic at the same distance a few years ago against the boys. It can happen. The race shape just needs to be there.
But sprinters are running every bit as fast now as then. I think last year the world record (! Not track, world) was broken at Belmont in a turf sprint.
Just looked it up. 6f in 105 and change last year on Belmont day.
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 10:58 am
Posted on 6/15/18 at 11:01 am to Mahootney
They are breeding to sell more than race. That’s why there are less distance races. The races are changed and written to reflect what they can get as far as entries go.
Having a fast 2 year old at the sales is more important than having something that will mature a little later and for more distance for someone who is patient. That fast and ready to go 2 year old brings the most money.
Also, Stallions who have won grade 1 races at the mile distance are also looked at as better commercial stallions than those who won going further. That’s part of it as well.
Having a fast 2 year old at the sales is more important than having something that will mature a little later and for more distance for someone who is patient. That fast and ready to go 2 year old brings the most money.
Also, Stallions who have won grade 1 races at the mile distance are also looked at as better commercial stallions than those who won going further. That’s part of it as well.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 11:22 am to tigerdude3232
quote:
Why have humans consistently been running faster and faster times in races while Secretariat still holds and unbreakable record at Belmont?
It’s a good question.
First of all, the Belmont Stakes is a 1.5 mile race, which is a distance that I don’t think is frequently run by the top horses. It’s not like the 100 m. dash where the fastest sprinters run it all the time. If the 1.5 mile dirt track record were as important to horse owners and trainers as the 100 m. record is to sprinters, maybe it would have been broken by now.
Second, even though Secretariat holds the Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes records, I don’t think he holds the world record at those distances. His Belmont time is the WR for 1.5 miles on dirt, though.
Third, Secretariat is like the Joe Montana of race horses. He is one of the best (if not the best) of all time but his enormous fame even 45 years after his racing prime is mainly due to high performance on the biggest stages. Many NFL QB’s have had regular season games better than anything Joe Montana produced, but Montana was known for doing it Super Bowls when the stakes were highest and more people were watching. Likewise, Secretariat’s best race came when the world was watching in anticipation of the first triple crown winner in many years.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 11:25 am to Globetrotter747
quote:
Third, Secretariat is like the Joe Montana of race horses. He is one of the best (if not the best) of all time but his enormous fame even 45 years after his racing prime is mainly due to high performance on the biggest stages. Many NFL QB’s have had regular season games better than anything Joe Montana produced, but Montana was known for doing it Super Bowls when the stakes were highest and more people were watching. Likewise, Secretariat’s best race came when the world was watching in anticipation of the first triple crown winner in many years.
But Peyton Manning and Tom Brady came along not long after.....
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:07 pm to Aspercel
quote:Well. That's true. But the buyers should be buying to race. lol.
They are breeding to sell more than race.
Or at least win. So, their horse can be sold to breed.
quote:This makes a lot of sense. I guess the OP needs to focus on changes in sprinting. Especially for horses.
Having a fast 2 year old at the sales is more important than having something that will mature a little later and for more distance for someone who is patient. That fast and ready to go 2 year old brings the most money.
As humans, we naturally split up the two categories. Horse racing seems to be more focused on speed.
quote:This was my primary point. You've got to have a super competitive race to push the pace to the point where winning requires a record time. Would Secretariat have posted those times without Sham? Doubtful. An iron sharpens iron type of deal.
Maybe we get a pace meltdown soon in the derby (or Preakness). That’s what set up Monarchos to be the only other horse besides Sham and Secretariat to finish in under 2 minutes.
quote:Whew. That's cooking!
Just looked it up. 6f in 105 and change last year on Belmont day.
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:52 pm to tigerdude3232
Scretariat and all thuroughbreds have enlarged hearts, which make them run faster... I researched this question before the Belmont actually, and supposedly Secretariat had a heart that was estimated to weigh 22 lbs, which is about 4 lbs heavier than other well known horses like War Admiral, etc.
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:22 pm to Mahootney
He repeated again this year! Just not that fast. Turf sprints are my favorite.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:36 pm to Scruffy
quote:Horses are like 90% leg and everyone knows that it is your abs that generator most of your power when in a full gallop. If they work on that 6 pack, I bet they will put up faster numbers. When was the last time you saw a horse with some abs?
Horses routinely skip leg day.
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