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Message
re: How do you feel about spanking children?
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:16 am to inadaze
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:16 am to inadaze
quote:That wasn't the comparison. The comparison was to the physical nature of the punishments not the relationships between coaches and players and parents and children.
WDE24's comparison with a coach-player relationship!!
The point was that non violent punishments that cause temporary physical pain but not injury are effective and commonly used in acceptable ways other than just spanking.
2
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:19 am to inadaze
quote:Not really. I'm very moderate by todays political standards. Ask all the kooks I have sparred with on the poli board.
Serious question - Would you call yourself a religious conservative?
While I am a Christian, I doubt my world views match your notion of what they are.
This post was edited on 1/25/14 at 10:20 am
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:20 am to WDE24
WDE, just wanted to jump in and say that you and balls comments have pretty much been spot on. I have 4 boys, all different, and different methods used. And I will say, when done properly, I used spanking at early ages only. Once they approach adolescent, other methods were more effective. And even when done, it was used minimally timewise. The look was good enough to correct the behavior after that.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:25 am to WDE24
quote:
That wasn't the comparison. The comparison was to the physical nature of the punishments not the relationships between coaches and players and parents and children.
The point was that non violent punishments that cause temporary physical pain but not injury are effective and commonly used in acceptable ways other than just spanking.
I don't know if you read the article, but if you did I think you missed my point. You said:
quote:
Somewhat similar to a coach making players run as discipline. It is a punishment that causes short term physical pain without injury that teaches that a certain behavior is not tolerated.
My point was to show that Carroll is doing in Seattle what I'm talking about doing with kids. Look deeper into the root cause of the problem and try to fix that, and it has worked for the Seahawks.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:30 am to WDE24
quote:
While I am a Christian, I doubt my world views match your notion of what they are.
Well, I just took a guess because you mentioned it, but didn't elaborate.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:35 am to inadaze
quote:Which is a great approach to coaching and parenting. However, when dealing with toddlers, the root cause is often just the simple fact of being a toddler with limited understanding of everything.
Look deeper into the root cause of the problem and try to fix that,
Which takes me back to my original post in this thread: it us very difficult to comprehend what I am saying until you experience living with and being responsible for the development of a child.
This post was edited on 1/25/14 at 10:38 am
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:39 am to Festus
quote:
WDE, just wanted to jump in and say that you and balls comments have pretty much been spot on. I have 4 boys, all different, and different methods used. And I will say, when done properly, I used spanking at early ages only. Once they approach adolescent, other methods were more effective. And even when done, it was used minimally timewise. The look was good enough to correct the behavior after that.
I feel hesitant to get embroiled in this much further, but another point I have been trying to discuss is that what you have described here seems to be fear-based.
Is there not another way to connect with the child on this level besides fear? Can you appeal to something else? Can there not be a high enough level of respect, love, or something else, where you don't have to appeal to fear?
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:44 am to inadaze
quote:
Can there not be a high enough level of respect, love, or something else, where you don't have to appeal to fear?
Please see the example of the hot stove. AGAIN. For the love of god...
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:46 am to CrimsonTideMD
Fear is not necessarily a bad thing.
They understand the fear of getting spanked while they cannot yet comprehend or predict the effects of pulling over a boiling pot onto themselves
ETA: no amount of love, respect, or [insert any other platitude] will change their behavior and protect them in this instance
They understand the fear of getting spanked while they cannot yet comprehend or predict the effects of pulling over a boiling pot onto themselves
ETA: no amount of love, respect, or [insert any other platitude] will change their behavior and protect them in this instance
This post was edited on 1/25/14 at 10:51 am
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:50 am to jg8623
quote:
Like I said yesterday people who are 100% against "spanking" are just as wrong as people who only use spanking for discipline. It's up to the parent to figure out what works for the kid
We tried it with my first child, and it had no affect. They figure out you can't hit them hard enough to keep them from doing what they want to do.
It's futile IMO, and teaches some negative traits. Beyond the fact it damn near broke my heart everytime, found it was teaching my kid things I was trying to prevent.
Found other punishments worked better and yelling/hitting weren't necessary. My wife's son yells and hits his kids, I can't stay in the house with them.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:54 am to WDE24
quote:
Which is a great approach to coaching and parenting. However, when dealing with toddlers, the root cause is often just the simple fact of being a toddler with limited understanding of everything.
Which takes me back to my original post in this thread: it us very difficult to comprehend what I am saying until you experience living with and being responsible for the development of a child.
I've explained that my niece and nephew did live with me for a short time (off and on for a total of approximately 2-3 years). My niece was a toddler during that time, and like I said earlier, it literally never even occurred to me to spank either of them.
Now, I don't mean to equate that to full-on parenthood, but I did spend a lot of time with them.
Anyways, if the argument is - You don't know unless you are a parent - then I'm stymied.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:55 am to CrimsonTideMD
quote:
Please see the example of the hot stove. AGAIN. For the love of god...
Just keep them away from a hot stove. That's simple.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 10:58 am to CrimsonTideMD
quote:
They understand the fear of getting spanked while they cannot yet comprehend or predict the effects of pulling over a boiling pot onto themselves
Why in the frick would a toddler be in that position? The root problem in this case seems to be the parent.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 11:00 am to inadaze
quote:
That's simple.
:lol: :lol: Jesus dude, your response here is a perfect example of why many actual parents in this thread keep pointing out your lack of understanding on the subject.
What happens if you or someone else makes a mistake and the toddler finds themselves in a kitchen unattended with a hot eye or pot on stove?
Posted on 1/25/14 at 11:04 am to Cracker
Pussification of murica
Well the time out generation is working out great
Best post of the thread.
Well the time out generation is working out great
Best post of the thread.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 11:06 am to inadaze
quote:
Why in the frick would a toddler be in that position?
Obviously, they shouldn't be.
But hey, I live in this place called the real world. In this place I live, things are not perfect.
I know it's absolutely crazy, unheard of, but just see if you can possible stretch to the very outer limits of your imagination and picture this:
A parent. A tired, possible sick parent. A parent taking cold medication. That same parent trying to wrangle 2, maybe even three kids. While preparing these kids a meal, one of the kids breaks something or hurts themselves. You react for a few seconds, as parents do, attending to the hurt or endangered child (imagine broken glass on the floor, or something like that).
CRASH. In a fricking millisecond, toddler number 2 has snuck toward the stove, pulled the pot off and onto himself, and now has second and third degree burns.
I have literally treated hundreds of kids victim to similar scenarios.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 11:13 am to CrimsonTideMD
quote:
Jesus dude, your response here is a perfect example of why many actual parents in this thread keep pointing out your lack of understanding on the subject.
What happens if you or someone else makes a mistake and the toddler finds themselves in a kitchen unattended with a hot eye or pot on stove?
Well, we've hit a dead-end. Anything I say is rendered useless by the appeal to authority arguments. And every piece of personal information I've shared in the thread has been used to invalidate what I say.
However, in my experience as an uncle, I never encountered something like what you're talking about. The toddler that lived with me wasn't big enough to reach a stove, and I sure as frick wouldn't have put her on the counter near a hot stove. But now we're getting off into specific details, and it feels futile.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 11:24 am to inadaze
quote:
I sure as frick wouldn't have put her on the counter near a hot stove
No kidding. Obviously. No one intentionally sets their kids up for calamity. That's why they're called accidents.
quote:
But now we're getting off into specific details
You complained that there were no "real arguments" being made so I gave you one. Then I went on to provide a real life scenario giving merit to my argument.
quote:
it feels futile.
Based on your response, I quite agree.
This post was edited on 1/25/14 at 11:27 am
Posted on 1/25/14 at 11:35 am to inadaze
Also, responding to your earlier oversight:
I can read that WDE was talking about parent-child relationships. The articles in your retort speak to tactics used on ADULTS or between ADULTS.
WDE and I have are blue in the face repeating ourselves: toddlers/kids are not reasonable/rational beings.
The error here is yours (to spell it out for you: the misapplication of adult oriented methods to children).
And finally, I've made no false accusations and I've not attacked you or anyone else in this thread
quote:
Oh FRICK! Can you read??
The link on marriage was about animal conditioning tactics used on humans. It was a direct response to the guy that compared kids to dogs!!
The second link on Pete Carroll's coaching philosophy was in response to WDE24's comparison with a coach-player relationship!!
I can read that WDE was talking about parent-child relationships. The articles in your retort speak to tactics used on ADULTS or between ADULTS.
WDE and I have are blue in the face repeating ourselves: toddlers/kids are not reasonable/rational beings.
The error here is yours (to spell it out for you: the misapplication of adult oriented methods to children).
And finally, I've made no false accusations and I've not attacked you or anyone else in this thread
Posted on 1/25/14 at 11:51 am to CrimsonTideMD
quote:
I can read that WDE was talking about parent-child relationships. The articles in your retort speak to tactics used on ADULTS or between ADULTS.
Why don't you just let this go? We've already reached a blockade. Now you're just trying to go back and GET ME! And you're wrong. I'll break it down.
WDE24 compared the child-parent relationship to a player-coach relationship. He brought that comparison into the conversation. To that, I linked the article about Pete Carroll's coaching philosophy for 2 reasons:
1. The crux of the article is about the player-coach relationship.
2. It specifically talks about Carroll's approach to dealing with problems with players. He is concerned with finding the root cause of a problem and fixing that, which is something I've been talking about in this thread ad nauseam.
So you see? You are full of shite!
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