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re: Has anyone talked about the Mr. Beast guy (Chris) going trans?
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:18 am to upgrayedd
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:18 am to upgrayedd
quote:
Popular culture is driving the medical field to come up with a scientific foundation to justify this stuff.
This x 1000
And you know it’s true because any hesitation or push back from doctors isn’t met with scientific interest or a desire to find deeper understanding with their concerns amongst “scholars” and hospital leadership, it’s immediately met with social/job pressure to push this without asking questions.
Transitioning minors and even adults will be looked at the same way lobotomies are looked at now. A completely insane response to a mental disorder that can be solved with therapy and often corrects itself over time. Parents and “medical professionals” are rushing their kids into this stuff without understanding the consequences. You think your child will be mad at you for not letting he or she transition as a child wait until she grows up and can’t have kids because you gave her the ok to be sterilized as a 15 year old. I’m sure that won’t cause any problems later in life.
We don’t give people with eating disorders liposuction, but here we are doing the equivalent to people with gender dysphoria.
0
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:19 am to Ross
quote:
So the additional complexity to the human condition afforded by the concept of “gender” has given value to the medical community.
I can't speak for the wider medical community, but the added complexity is exactly in my wheelhouse. Why wouldn't I think it has given value?
quote:
It just seems odd you can derive value from something that isn’t well-defined or is even agreed upon to be necessary in evaluating the human condition.
But it seems that you can easily derive value from something that isn't well-defined, by attempting to define it more discretely, no?
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:21 am to beerJeep
quote:
Should I go up to a girl who has anorexia and tell her “damn girl, you really are fat as frick like you think you are. You should definitely lose some weight”
What are you talking about?
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:21 am to Centinel
quote:
Covid, and how the medical community responded, destroyed any faith I had in the medical community to be objective and outside the influence of government.
i had intelligent doctors and others in the medical community (i live in a large national research and residential hospital community) i respected that were friends flat out lie to me during that time.
when i called them out and said what you said empirically and demonstrably false, they said that they could only go by what the CDC was telling them at the time. I asked "even though you know that's not true?" just shrugs and said they had to listen to the authority at that time and could only repeat approved talking points.
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:21 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
I can't speak for the wider medical community, but the added complexity is exactly in my wheelhouse. Why wouldn't I think it has given value?
I think my central point is we have thus far been unable to even identify what this complexity even is. No coherent definition of what “gender” is has been provided and I’m not sure one even exists, so I don’t see how this additional complexity could possibly be value-added.
This post was edited on 4/14/23 at 10:22 am
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:22 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
What are you talking about?
don't be obtuse. if somebody is having a false dysmorphia of their body, it's malpractice to reinforce it as a doctor, and cruel as a human.
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:22 am to SammyTiger
quote:
No conservatives use care about the slippery slope of the second amendment leads directly to school shootings.
So we’re back to blaming inanimate objects.
Are we to also go after pen/pencil manufacturers for when a doctor writes a prescription that gets a patient hooked onto a drug that eventually causes them to OD themselves?
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:25 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
What are you talking about?
Pretty simple question.
Should people agree with anorexic people and confirm their WRONG beliefs that they are fat when they are not.
Should we, as upstanding citizens, tell anorexic folk that they are, indeed, fat as frick and need to lose weight?
Should we confirm their identity?
Should we urge them to receive mental health treatment?
Is it a mental issue to believe that you are something you are not?
Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
Because what YOU are saying, is that we should tell anorexic people that they are indeed fat. That they do, indeed, need to refrain from eating so that they can continue to look like a skeleton as they “think” they are fat, and because they “think” they are fat, they really are fat.
Why do you support egging on mental illness?
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:28 am to crazy4lsu
Do you believe that if someone identifies as disabled he/she should have the ability to remove limbs and cut nerves to become wheelchair bound for life? And if so would this be ok to do to a minor?
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:28 am to Ross
quote:
I think my central point is we have thus far been unable to even identify what this complexity even means. No coherent definition of what “gender” is has been provided, so I don’t see how this additional complexity could possibly be value-added.
Well, it's hard for me to frame any knowledge accumulation as 'bad' per se. And I could see multiple approaches to trying to define gender, such as trying to define 'sex' more discretely so that we can box other aspects associated with it with 'gender' which we already do. For me, a study which suggests a molecular modulation in terms of 'gender identity' or studies of that nature would be meaningful too, because by accumulation you can define what we mean when we say 'gender.' Given that some aspects of this are in the realm of the social sciences, it's difficult to give as clear a definition of gender as we do of sex from a medical perspective alone. If part of gender is socially constructed, that expands the ways we can approach it too. Fundamentally, I don't see how the lack of coherence is a bad thing, especially relatively early on in the research of something.
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:31 am to crazy4lsu
I think we’re just going to disagree strongly on this one. For me, for a more complex model of reality to survive Occam’s razor it has to be coherent and offer predictive power that the previous model did not offer. I don’t see a model of the human condition with “gender” in it satisfying these conditions.
For the record, the guy talking about anorexia has a good point. You exhausted a lot of effort talking about physical correlates to gender identity earlier, analogous correlates no doubt exist for schizophrenics or those with body dysmorphia but for some reason we don’t advocate for adding ill-defined terms to the lexicon of describing humans for these conditions and use these terms to affirm that which is not real.
For the record, the guy talking about anorexia has a good point. You exhausted a lot of effort talking about physical correlates to gender identity earlier, analogous correlates no doubt exist for schizophrenics or those with body dysmorphia but for some reason we don’t advocate for adding ill-defined terms to the lexicon of describing humans for these conditions and use these terms to affirm that which is not real.
This post was edited on 4/14/23 at 10:39 am
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:31 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Given that some aspects of this are in the realm of the social sciences, it's difficult to give as clear a definition of gender as we do of sex from a medical perspective alone. If part of gender is socially constructed, that expands the ways we can approach it too. Fundamentally, I don't see how the lack of coherence is a bad thing, especially relatively early on in the research of something.
i don't disagree with anything you said necessarily, but given that it's still a quasi social science with physiological ramifications, shouldn't there be more caution with permanent surgeries?
gay and trans people have existed for all time, their insistence at lopping off body parts is pretty new.
This post was edited on 4/14/23 at 10:42 am
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:34 am to beerJeep
quote:
Pretty simple question.
Firstly, I need you to go read that post again and understand what I was saying, because I have literally no idea how you arrived at this question. Like I need you to repeat back to me what I was saying to Ross so that you understand the words I typed.
quote:
Because what YOU are saying, is that we should tell anorexic people that they are indeed fat. That they do, indeed, need to refrain from eating so that they can continue to look like a skeleton as they “think” they are fat, and because they “think” they are fat, they really are fat.
Wrong. Completely wrong. Find me where I said this.
quote:
Why do you support egging on mental illness?
Ah, you must be one of those brilliant minds who thinks 'mental' illness means that the etiology of a disease is 'only in the mind' or something.
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:38 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
because I have literally no idea how you arrived at this question.
You’re being QUITE obtuse as I quite easily laid it out. As multiple other posters easily picked up on what I was saying.
quote:
Wrong. Completely wrong. Find me where I said this.
Uhhhh….. you have spent this entire thread arguing for that. you believe we should confirm mentally ill peoples belief that they are something they are not.
quote:
Like I need you to repeat back to me what I was saying to Ross so that you understand the words I typed.
Uhhhh you know I was not responding to that particular post and what you said in that particular post…. I was simply responding to YOU.
How the frick did you move on from kindergarten?
quote:
Ah, you must be one of those brilliant minds who thinks 'mental' illness means that the etiology of a disease is 'only in the mind' or something.
If I told you I think I’m a 5 year old. You would say I have a mental illness.
If I told you I think I am African American. You would say I have a mental illness.
I’d I told you I believe that I am 400 pounds and I have been starving myself for 6 months to where i now weigh 90 pounds at 5 foot 9. You would say I have a mental illness.
If I told you I believed that I am a 90 year old elephant. You would say I have a mental illness.
If I say I am a woman and I want to cut my duck off…… you say alright lady! I believe in you! You go girl!
This post was edited on 4/14/23 at 10:40 am
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:38 am to jnethe1
quote:
So we’re back to blaming inanimate objects.
Republican pretend to be the real world reasonable party until it comes to guns. “Oh guns don’t kill people, people kill people” yes, with guns. If you’re fighting for your life do you want a gun or a friend? Remember that gun can’t kill anyone.
quote:
Are we to also go after pen/pencil manufacturers for when a doctor writes a prescription that gets a patient hooked onto a drug that eventually causes them to OD themselves?
You’re soooooo close. Read that sentence and see if there is another object involved that we could ban and help prevent that problem.
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:41 am to SammyTiger
quote:
SammyTiger
Are you trying to out retard the other retard in here with “multiple” trans friends?
If so, you are doing a damn good job
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:43 am to beerJeep
I’m bowing out here but I think you brought up a good point with body dysmorphia, but you can argue it way more effectively without the insults. Insults make people close off and take an already minimal chance of being persuaded and take it to zero.
This post was edited on 4/14/23 at 10:43 am
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:44 am to beerJeep
quote:
Are you trying to out retard the other retard in here with “multiple” trans friends?
Republicans: if we let them marry we’ll have to decriminalize pedophilia, it’s a slippery slope!
Also Republicans: OMG, I how Can you say there is a connection between selling guns and people killing people with guns?!?!?!?
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:44 am to SammyTiger
quote:
Republican pretend to be the real world reasonable party until it comes to guns.
Wrong, you don't know what responsibility means.
"Real world responsibility" means I am fully responsible for my firearms.
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:45 am to Ross
quote:
Insults make people close off and take an already minimal chance of being persuaded and take it to zero.
That’s the thing, I’m not looking to persuade him. I’m mocking him for my own enjoyment. I enjoy dropping logic bombs on these emotional little twats and watch them squirm like a slug in salt.
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