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1
Posted on 9/12/23 at 10:21 am to East Coast Band
quote:
Cutting taxes and the OT is salty about it?
Would you rather the taxes go up?
The data in Georgia suggests that the citizens would be better served if they simply quit fricking with the tax. What it has done in the past, and this is now a tradition for GOP governors in the state since 2001, is dropped prices for a few hours to a day or so and then the price at the pump was about what it would be with the tax and when the tax is reinstated the price at the pump goes up and stays up longer than it stayed down. This is the data from the state having done this several times since 2001. The tax payers are paying the same price for gas and the missing revenue has to be made up somewhere.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 10:28 am to sidewalkside
quote:
.the gas stations will rise prices by 20 cents and you'll maybe see a 12 cent reduction.
And those 20 cents/gal go straight to the gas companies.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 10:30 am to AwgustaDawg
Yep, history repeats itself....
https://www.11alive.com/article/traffic/gas-prices/georgia-gas-tax-cut-customer-savings/85-8c1b6947-2ed6-4621-b867-48049403b2cf
https://www.11alive.com/article/traffic/gas-prices/georgia-gas-tax-cut-customer-savings/85-8c1b6947-2ed6-4621-b867-48049403b2cf
quote:
In fact, in 2005, after Hurricane Katrina shut down refineries in the Gulf, Georgia suspended the gasoline tax, and in Atlanta two Georgia State University economics professors, David Sjoquist and James Alm, discovered that gas stations across the state did not pass along all of the tax savings.
The law then didn’t require them to do so.
“What we found was that about two-thirds of the tax found its way into reduced prices,” Dr. Sjoquist said Thursday. “And about a third of it stayed with the retailer.”
He said studies in other states that suspended their gas taxes found their gas stations were also keeping about one-third of the savings.
If that were to happen this time, he said, “I would say the price of gasoline (in Georgia) will go down about $0.20, holding everything else constant. So I suspect that the gasoline retailers will hang on to some of that tax reduction.”
As it is, Sjoquist and other economists like Professor Ray Hill of Emory University point out that as crude oil prices continue to fluctuate, and as retail gas prices begin to decline due to many market forces, it will be tough to know how much of the lower prices at the pump are the result of Georgia’s gas tax suspension.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 10:31 am to IT_Dawg
The gas tax funds highway projects so this suspension is going to be a long term mistake. While you save $5 at the pump, you now gotta spend $25 to repair a flat.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 10:34 am to sidewalkside
quote:
As long as they are not engaging in price gouging during some natural disaster or emergency
See, this is where it gets a little muddy. Pretty sure he's suspending the tax due to an "emergency" so yeah, they can totally regulate that. If they cut .30 off a gallon and a store jacks their price up .20 to take advantage of that and do harm to the buyers the governor is trying to help, that's borderline gouging.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 10:34 am to IT_Dawg
But the Big Guy saved me 3 cents on my 2021 July 4th barbecue
Posted on 9/12/23 at 10:41 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
what happened every time we have done this in Georgia, dating back to when W was in the Whitehouse and gas prices went crazy, was for the price at the pump to drop for a few hours to a few days and within a few weeks be just slightly less than neighboring states and slightly less than the price at the pump was with the tax included. When the tax was reinstated the price jumps by exactly the amount of the tax making gas in the state much higher than it is in neighboring states for a few weeks...then the market takes over and prices get close to equilibrium.
While I hear what you're saying and I get it, it's not what I observed. Fuel prices go up and down seasonally, so, yes, if you cut the tax out in the spring, it will eventually rise and reach the levels where it was before by mid-summer. But it was going to be higher than that had the tax not been dropped and it will, of course, be higher than it was once it's reinstated. That's all expected. The temporary removal of the tax isn't huge, make no mistake. But this argument that a small amount saved is inconsequential is also why people fail to save anything any other time. They rationalize that putting $5.00 in the savings account makes no difference. Every little bit is something. Not world-changing, but it's something.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 10:42 am to P2K
quote:
The gas tax funds highway projects so this suspension is going to be a long term mistake.
And the state will make up that revenue somehow. Either with an increase in taxes somewhere else or higher gas taxes when they’re reinstated.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 10:44 am to Wally Sparks
Government surplus' should be illegal. Should divide up the cost of government per year and send a bill to each resident. Would have the politicians looking out for the people, when the people raise hell about the bill. Talk about some protest when everyone has to pay equal shares.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 11:04 am to SDVTiger
quote:
Meanwhile Gav your future Pres raised the gas tax
I watched PEB yesterday talking about the high taxes in Cali. He said they have the highest tax on gas in the country. .64 cents a gallon!
Posted on 9/12/23 at 11:06 am to S1C EM
quote:
that's borderline gouging.
It's either gouging or not. Just like you're pregnant or you're not...there is no borderline. In your "opinion" it may be "borderline" but nobody cares about your opinions.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 11:16 am to S1C EM
quote:
While I hear what you're saying and I get it, it's not what I observed. Fuel prices go up and down seasonally, so, yes, if you cut the tax out in the spring, it will eventually rise and reach the levels where it was before by mid-summer. But it was going to be higher than that had the tax not been dropped and it will, of course, be higher than it was once it's reinstated. That's all expected. The temporary removal of the tax isn't huge, make no mistake. But this argument that a small amount saved is inconsequential is also why people fail to save anything any other time. They rationalize that putting $5.00 in the savings account makes no difference. Every little bit is something. Not world-changing, but it's something.
You are absolutely correct about the savings aspect...every little bit helps for sure. The long term wisdom of cutting a source of revenue that no one complains about is a bad idea though...most people bitch about the price of gas at the pump and even with the information at the pump they do not coorelate the cost with taxation...intellectually they know it but they also know that it is a consumption tax and they can control the costs by controlling their comsumption. When the price approaces the market price with or without the tax the taxpayer is paying the same for gas and will eventually have to make up for the loss revenue resulting from a tax that most taxpayers accept pretty readily.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 11:37 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
The long term wisdom of cutting a source of revenue that no one complains about is a bad idea though...most people bitch about the price of gas at the pump and even with the information at the pump they do not coorelate the cost with taxation...intellectually they know it but they also know that it is a consumption tax and they can control the costs by controlling their comsumption.
You're correct on the long-term ramifications. No argument from me. Just saying the effect in my area has been noticeable for more than just a few days or weeks.
And while I wish it were as simple as cutting consumption for us, there's really not much we can cut. We don't drive around needlessly and spend more at one time versus another, so our fuel costs stay consistent with a pretty dead-on, once-a-week fill-up. People like myself who cannot cut anything on the consumption end will at least appreciate the small bit of reprieve from the lower cost at the pump. But whether they cut the tax or not, you're also right in that we're going to accept it at whatever it is because we have no choice. I guess that's where we all are.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 11:39 am to sidewalkside
quote:
It's either gouging or not. Just like you're pregnant or you're not...there is no borderline. In your "opinion" it may be "borderline" but nobody cares about your opinions.
Fine. It's gouging. And it's done to take advantage of a specific situation. I didn't see this happen around me the last time, but I'm sure that plenty of stations will do it, especially smaller "convenience store" types. Thank goodness we got a Costco not long ago. Haven't really filled up anywhere else since.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 11:45 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
And the state will make up that revenue somehow. Either with an increase in taxes somewhere else or higher gas taxes when they’re reinstated.
Correct. The gas tax got dropped temporarily here in Kentucky and in the process they quietly passed a bill that now taxes a bunch of services that didn’t before.
I’d rather pay the gas tax and have my roads maintained.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 11:51 am to IT_Dawg
It's a nice gesture. But whoever is suggesting saving 31-32 cents per gallon is extremely optimistic. There's not even a consensus that gas taxes even work or have the desired outcome.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2022/06/21/why-a-gas-tax-holiday-probably-wont-work/?sh=22ec54ba179b
Georgia's been doing this for at least a year now, and it hasn't really done anything to "the curve."
https://www.gasbuddy.com/charts
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2022/06/21/why-a-gas-tax-holiday-probably-wont-work/?sh=22ec54ba179b
Georgia's been doing this for at least a year now, and it hasn't really done anything to "the curve."
https://www.gasbuddy.com/charts
Posted on 9/12/23 at 12:29 pm to Wally Sparks
quote:
Is the state going to raid the surplus again?
?? Does that mean issue a refund of our money the state didn’t use? If so I hope they do it again this year. I’d certainly rather they give me back my money they didn’t spend rather than find some dumb way to burn it.
Posted on 9/12/23 at 12:30 pm to IT_Dawg
quote:frick that. Let them suffer from their decision to elect potato brain.
Georgia suspends gas tax
Posted on 9/12/23 at 12:34 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
The data in Georgia suggests
Can you link the data source to which you are referring? My money is on your data source is actually your anecdotal opinion.
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