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re: Ford, GM, Mercedes come clean on EV demand weakness
Posted on 11/1/23 at 12:41 pm to kywildcatfanone
Posted on 11/1/23 at 12:41 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
Yep, easily. Toyota's focus is this instead of straight EV and it makes perfect sense.
I agree with that. And most hybrids can handle low speeds in full electric mode, so the idle emissions will be reduced significantly in the cities.
If we can make the whole fleet get 30% better fuel economy with the same performance, that is a HUGE benefit to all of us. And most hybrids are closer to 40% improvement to a comparable standard model.
And hybrids are a lot lighter than full EV's, so they are typically less wear on our already screwed up road network.
This post was edited on 11/1/23 at 12:43 pm
0
Posted on 11/1/23 at 12:44 pm to goofball
quote:I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion? You compare cars in class and price. You wouldn't compare a $120k Mercedes to the best selling car in the US, so I don't see why it matters in this case as well. Not sure if I'm just misunderstanding that comment though?
BMW 3 series isn't even close to the best selling car in the US though
quote:Pretty sure the cheapest Tesla Model 3 doesn't qualify for the incentive, so you wouldn't factor that into a total cost of ownership study, and thus, doesn't really compare price wise to a Camry that is like 33% cheaper or something like that.
The Tesla Model 3 with the tax incentive is much closer to a mid range Camry in price
quote:I disagree. This is not the Tesla sedan designed for the masses. Heck, the performance and long range are at or near $60k last I checked. Tesla is in the early stages of their next car, and that car will be the one that is designed for the masses and supposedly under $30k.
Both are designed to be a sedan for the masses. It's fair to use the Camry as a yardstick to see how far mass market electric vehicles have come.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 12:45 pm to dewster
quote:That's fair, but you need to compare a total cost of ownership to like cars, not cars that cost $25k.
That’s a low bar. BMW is in the basement with Land Rover and Jaguar when it comes to cost of ownership. BMW is not the company they were 20 years ago. Nobody should own one out of warranty unless they are very good friends with a BMW mechanic.
That should not be the benchmark for EV’s. More popular cars from Toyota, Nissan, Chevy, VW, or Honda should be.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 12:47 pm to member12
How do folks charge their EVs at home? Use a standard 120V/ 15 Amp outlet in the garage?
Posted on 11/1/23 at 12:50 pm to East Coast Band
Don't forget to add cost of home charger and installation to cost of ev
Posted on 11/1/23 at 12:50 pm to East Coast Band
quote:
How do folks charge their EVs at home? Use a standard 120V/ 15 Amp outlet in the garage?
Usually some type of dedicated installed charging station. Mostly 40amp and up. Some people install and use a nema 14/50 amp outlet.
You can charge on 20/30amp circuits but slower obviously.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 1:33 pm to SG_Geaux
quote:
quote:
The government is pushing EVs but consumers don't seem to really want them yet. At the same time, the government is also applying more regulatory pressure on energy providers despite knowing that EV's will increase demand for electricity. As the article states, this is a government mandated disaster in the making.
The government wants to turn us into a 3rd world country so they can have complete control
It's not a conspiracy theory when it's a conspiracy fact.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 1:37 pm to Barbellthor
true
Posted on 11/1/23 at 1:48 pm to member12
People finally realized that electricity is not free and can fluctuate in price just like gasoline.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 1:50 pm to shel311
quote:
That's fair, but you need to compare a total cost of ownership to like cars, not cars that cost $25k.
You can easily get a Camry to mid 30s. I also don't think Tesla's interior finishes and performance chops in their entry level Model 3s really measure up to the BMW 3 series class (Mercedes C, Audi A4, Volvo S60, Cadillac CT4, Lexus IS, etc.).
Its more in line with a Camry, Accord, Altima, or Malibu in quality. But far superior in performance to them.
Also - the fact that it's challenging to find a direct ICE counterpart from the most popular EV in the world is also a hint that these things aren't really ready for directly replacing ICE cars yet.
The Bolt EV is a very low cost vehicle to own, but it also isn't a direct competitor to any real gas vehicle except maybe a VW Golf or Toyota Yaris - both of which have been discontinued.
I was hoping the Equinox EV and possibly the upcoming Honda EV (now canceled) would shake things up a bit in the affordable EV segment, but I don't think they are going to come in at the prices that the manufacturers originally suggested. I suspect they will both be $10,000+ over their closest gasoline powered counterparts.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 1:51 pm to East Coast Band
quote:
How do folks charge their EVs at home? Use a standard 120V/ 15 Amp outlet in the garage?
Yeah that or a hampster wheel.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 1:57 pm to goofball
quote:
Yeah that or a hampster wheel.
an alternator on the wife's peloton might even save a marriage.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 1:59 pm to member12
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:01 pm to East Coast Band
quote:
How do folks charge their EVs at home? Use a standard 120V/ 15 Amp outlet in the garage?
That would only take about 40 hours to charge.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:26 pm to East Coast Band
quote:NEMA 14-50 outlet, cost $500(for me at least) to have an electrician come out to install in the garage.
How do folks charge their EVs at home? Use a standard 120V/ 15 Amp outlet in the garage?
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:30 pm to goofball
quote:You can also get a Tesla that cost $60k, I was just comparing like to like, starting Camry price to starting Tesla price. The Tesla cost significantly more.
You can easily get a Camry to mid 30s
So if you do a total cost of ownership, you have to adjust for that. If the Camry shows cheaper but by a small amount, that's really an advantage for the Tesla IMO. It shows how the cost of upkeep is much cheaper, and the Tesla base model 3 has so many more critical features(think Auto Pilot) that this Camry can't compete with so that additional $13k or whatever it was in starting price is getting you the value you needed for that price point.
quote:Far superior, which is why total cost of ownership compared to these don't really make sense IMO. Sure, maybe the Tesla cost more, but now factor in that performance and those features.
Its more in line with a Camry, Accord, Altima, or Malibu in quality. But far superior in performance to them.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:30 pm to goofball
quote:
How do folks charge their EVs at home? Use a standard 120V/ 15 Amp outlet in the garage?
quote:No
Yeah
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:31 pm to Auburn1968
quote:Most folks get the NEMA 14-50, and it adds 30 miles per hour in range, you charge overnight, and always start a day with full charge.
That would only take about 40 hours to charge.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 3:36 pm to shel311
quote:
3. EV sales increases from legacy automakers are far outpacing Tesla's sales increases, despite Tesla's ~25% YoY price cut. Your last sentence doesn't hold water. Tesla, for the first time ever, will fall under 50% of the EV market this year more than likely.
Why does this prove my last sentence doesn't hold water? In fact, you're contradicting yourself by stating this with your point #1 of your post. Point #1 is exactly why you're incorrect here
As the EV market grows, Tesla will have less and less market share, this will be portrayed as a negative but it's not. The key point there is the EV market growing. Tesla will lose market share but will still benefit as a result of the growth in the market itself.
Recent public school graduate? Reading comprehension is weak....
Posted on 11/1/23 at 3:54 pm to lurkr
quote:
it's 10 to 11 acres a Megawatt for solar, it's going to take a bit more than 1500 acres to replace 600 to 800 megawatts that coal unit puts out. On a perfectly sunny day
Sure would be nice to have 1500 acres of trees instead.
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