- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: for the "there are good public schools in the suburbs" crowd
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:07 am to fr33manator
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:07 am to fr33manator
quote:I had this conversation with my wife this morning. It’s not about “safe spaces” it’s about excluding people who don’t look like you or have your political views/beliefs.
t’s little passive aggressive bull shite. They mask it in this nonsense but really it’s a tool of persecution. Totalitarianism 101. It’s the soft sell.
Just another form of reverse discrimination. This falls into the category of “give them an inch….”
Who could ever question something called a “safe space”? That’s like saying I’m against saving the planet.
But what happens when they turn, not just a classroom into a safe space, but the whole campus? Are only those deemed safe space worthy allowed to attend the school?
0
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:08 am to Pettifogger
quote:
It's been a political message since at least the time I was in college. That some portion of the people using it intend it as a genuine expression of compassion doesn't change the role it predominately has in society.
I think posters like you and Oilfield are correct in that some people are using it as a political tool and some people are genuine compassion... but I think the group that you think is the majority and the group you think is the minority... I think you have it backwards.
quote:
You think mental illness diagnoses are up because we don't spend enough money on mental health treatment?
I think that's pretty clear. We used to lock away crazy people... now we don't. We used to look at mental health as a community risk... now we don't.
quote:
I suspect you'd agree that the persecution of gay people in America has steeply declined in all forums, including schools. I'm open to the possibility it's still more pronounced than other bullying, although I suspect that varies and I doubt it is pervasive as you indicate.
Has it declined? I agree that more people are tolerant and accepting of the gay lifestyle... mainly because many people (and I put myself in this category, compared to maybe 15 years ago) that if some other dude wants to suck on a sausage, as long as he isn't asking me to suck on a sausage, I really don't care. If some dude sucking on a sausage makes him happy... sure... I think it's weird... but if he's happy, I'm happy for him.
quote:
I also don't make a habit of deferring to the people on the ground in failing entities (public schools), although I'm sure there are good administrators, teachers, etc. who are not tainted by allegiance to said failing system and can speak candidly and authoritatively on the topic.
Again... life is a range. Not all public schools are failing. Not sure where you live... if you live in the South LA I can see where you might think all public schools are failing... but the reality is many of them are great... especially when you get out of the urban areas.
Maybe your strokes are too broad.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:09 am to TDTOM
quote:
Then the teacher should be disciplined.
You want the teacher disciplined for trying to help a child?
Did you think this through?
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:12 am to TDTOM
quote:
If a kid says to a teacher " my throat hurts, and I am cold". What is the first thing a teacher says? Go to the office and see the nurse. She doesn't break a tongue depressor and thermometer. Same concept.
What if I told you that my child's public school shares a nurse with 2 other schools? And that most often, what happens is the kid is sent to the office, who calls the parent, who them decides what to do?
Also... as many on this thread have told you... the concept of guidance counselors sitting around ready to talk to kids who need help... it's just not reality. I'm sorry. Maybe it should be. But those positions were reallocated to individuals who ensure enough kids are passing LEAP...
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:12 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
You want the teacher disciplined for trying to help a child?
Yes. That is not her job. She can just as easily say the wrong thing and make things worse. Do you want the teacher to give the child medicine if she is sick, or do you want the nurse to do it?
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:18 am to Pettifogger
quote:
the role of teachers on children is probably ENCOURAGING shitty parenting and creating a cycle where advocate teachers can take advantage of vulnerable students and good teachers feel the pressure to take a bigger role to fill the void
You 100 percent have the "teach for america" types who come down here from their NE liberal college with 250K tuition paid for by daddy and at 23 years old and with a summer of training, take teaching jobs in poor black schools thinking they are gonna change our culture and positively impact the world. They spend their two years trying to retrain kids to not listen to their parents and all that.
And then after two years, 99 percent of these liberals leave the south and go back home to the NE and do something else with their life.
Meanwhile, the teachers who grew up here and are making a career out of this, are less concerned with trying to force a viewpoint, and just want the kids to succeed in the classroom. Kids most often succeed in the reading, writing, etc classroom work when they are comfortable and generally happy, and when they have a positive home life.
And because there are terrible parents out there... some teachers do feel the pressure to step in to fill the void.
Is the fact that a teacher is doing something a parent should be doing... encouraging the parent to continue to disregard their responsibility. Perhaps.
The alternative is that the teacher also doesn't give AF, and the kid now has nothing. That seems a lot worse, no?
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:20 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
I think posters like you and Oilfield are correct in that some people are using it as a political tool and some people are genuine compassion... but I think the group that you think is the majority and the group you think is the minority... I think you have it backwards.
I hope that's true. But the results don't reflect your position.
quote:
I think that's pretty clear. We used to lock away crazy people... now we don't. We used to look at mental health as a community risk... now we don't.
I would disagree. Diagnoses are rising for many reasons, but not because we don't spend enough. Now the outcomes may be declining because we don't spend enough...
quote:
Has it declined? I agree that more people are tolerant and accepting of the gay lifestyle... mainly because many people (and I put myself in this category, compared to maybe 15 years ago) that if some other dude wants to suck on a sausage, as long as he isn't asking me to suck on a sausage, I really don't care. If some dude sucking on a sausage makes him happy... sure... I think it's weird... but if he's happy, I'm happy for him.
You don't think it's declined? Being gay is an asset in almost every profession in America in terms of advancement. It's a celebrated metric used in corporate America. Now, whether that's good for society is a different question, but the persecution of gays has absolutely declined by any meaningful measure. I find it odd you don't readily agree, but whatever.
quote:
Again... life is a range. Not all public schools are failing. Not sure where you live... if you live in the South LA I can see where you might think all public schools are failing... but the reality is many of them are great... especially when you get out of the urban areas.
Maybe your strokes are too broad.
My strokes are broad for convenience, as are yours. I'm guessing "many" and "great" is an example of this on your end. The flaws, if we're honest, are that you're seeing the microcosm and applying it on a macro level. I'm viewing outcomes on a macro level and unfairly applying it to individual examples.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:22 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Apologies, but what the frick does this even mean?
Aren't we elevating homosexuality to a lifestyle and culture than a sexual preference when we talk like this?
Shouldn't the goal be to foster a society where gay people can find a lifelong mate and live free of harassment and then set their sights on being a productive member of society and providing for the ones they care about?
It should be the goal.
1) We ain't there... although we are closer than we have ever been
2) High school sucks for a lot of kids, for a lot of reasons.
I know all of us on the O-T are highly successful professionals with tons of money and married to 9.0 wives... but I encourage you to maybe think back to your high school days. Maybe you are the lucky kid who never struggled trying to find their way. Odds are, you struggled, just like the rest of us.
And even when you struggled, you didn't call attention to yourself. You put your head down, talked to whom you needed to talk to, leaned on who you needed to lean on, and figured it out, right?
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:26 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
And because there are terrible parents out there... some teachers do feel the pressure to step in to fill the void.
Is the fact that a teacher is doing something a parent should be doing... encouraging the parent to continue to disregard their responsibility. Perhaps.
The alternative is that the teacher also doesn't give AF, and the kid now has nothing. That seems a lot worse, no?
This is basically the juxtaposition I'm talking about - no?
I admit it's difficult. But my concern is that your wife is not the majority, she's the minority. You think she's closer to the mean. I don't know where the truth lies - I suspect I'm right nationwide or even regionally.
I have a knee jerk reactions to teachers because they have a knee jerk reaction to defend the system, even when they're counter to most of it. And I think it's a cycle that generates bad teachers, because they adopt the ways and beliefs of the system that are by and large failing. And I know we have different definitions of failing, but if you can graduate high school, including those who graduate with honors and are off to top colleges, without having the well-rounded knowledge base that comes from traditional classical education, I think the system has failed. And that's well before you get to the more common debates centered on 10th graders who can't read, etc.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:27 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I would disagree. Diagnoses are rising for many reasons, but not because we don't spend enough. Now the outcomes may be declining because we don't spend enough...
I think we have a lot of undiagnosed mental illness in this country. Look at all the school shootings and the parent says "oh my baby would never do that" and there is no record of mental illness. Yet someone spends 5 min reading FB posts and you realize the kid has got some serious issues.
And even if diagnoses are increasing... if outcomes are decreasing... who cares about higher diagnoses? Great... we know there are more problems and we are doing less about it? That's even worse...
quote:
You don't think it's declined?
I never said that. It has absolutely declined. It has not been eliminated.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:30 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
And even when you struggled, you didn't call attention to yourself. You put your head down, talked to whom you needed to talk to, leaned on who you needed to lean on, and figured it out, right?
Yeah, and thankfully the culture and the community didn't tell me my problems were bigger than they were or that half of society was out to get me.
I think things are different now, more pervasive. I don't envy kids in this era, even though I forcefully suggest that their problems are largely of their own creation and will be blips and meaningless in time.
But I still think we're leaning in to the issues, embracing them, exaggerating them. And it's going to have catastrophic impacts on this country's ability to build well-functioning, mature adults. Actually, we're past that point, we're already seeing the impacts.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:30 am to LSUFanHouston
Ding ding ding. Last year all teachers were symptom spotters, taking temps and asking about symptoms (not by choice either). If we sent them up to the office, guess who is doing it often? The secretary. Guess who administers the meds? The secretary. Schools share nurses, counselors and special education teachers. What should be and what is reality are very different.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:33 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
And even if diagnoses are increasing... if outcomes are decreasing... who cares about higher diagnoses? Great... we know there are more problems and we are doing less about it? That's even worse...
This is all ancillary to my original argument, which is that we're fostering the environment that creates self-loathing, the perception of grand conflict and strife, etc.
Once upon a time, I feel the institutions we're talking about - the American left, teachers, the public education system at large, etc. - repeated the mantra that the world was a place that has a lot to offer you, it's not a dark and scary place, it's a great place with lots of opportunity, your trials will be adventures, so on and so forth.
I don't hear that rhetoric anymore, and we're all worse for the shift.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:35 am to Pettifogger
quote:
But my concern is that your wife is not the majority, she's the minority. You think she's closer to the mean. I don't know where the truth lies - I suspect I'm right nationwide or even regionally.
What's your background here? Do you have experience as a teacher? Mine is anecdotal from what I view... do you have closer experience or is yours anecdotal as well?
My observation - if you have a good school system, a good school... once teachers have spent a few years figuring out how to teach... they take a natural inclination to wanting to help their kids succeed.
Wjat makes the news are the crappy teachers... the ones who want to use COVID as an excuse to not work... the ones who only care about a paycheck... the ones who are completely tied to the union's BS. The ones who would organize a strike to get an additional $1 a day in pay. Absolutely, those teachers exist.
quote:
I have a knee jerk reactions to teachers because they have a knee jerk reaction to defend the system, even when they're counter to most of it. And I think it's a cycle that generates bad teachers, because they adopt the ways and beliefs of the system that are by and large failing.
Again, those people exist. But many teachers are just trying to teach English, Math, whatever. At least once a week, my wife complains about some stupid policy, some stupid district decision, something that makes no sense. But... that's followed up by a thought that no matter what the teachers say, it's not changing. So, they let it go. Maybe they should fight the administration harder than they do. They just don't.
quote:
And I know we have different definitions of failing, but if you can graduate high school, including those who graduate with honors and are off to top colleges, without having the well-rounded knowledge base that comes from traditional classical education, I think the system has failed.
We got LEAP in Louisiana because in the late 90s, we had kids who were graduating from NOLA public schools with GPAs north of 4.0 who needed remedial math in college. Kids graduating "with honors" who were getting 15 on the ACT. So yeah, some schools / school systems have "failed" for decades. This is not new.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:40 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Once upon a time, I feel the institutions we're talking about - the American left, teachers, the public education system at large, etc. - repeated the mantra that the world was a place that has a lot to offer you, it's not a dark and scary place, it's a great place with lots of opportunity, your trials will be adventures, so on and so forth.
I don't hear that rhetoric anymore, and we're all worse for the shift.
If the only place you are looking for that is via media and politician messaging... then I agree, you won't find it.
In the day to day normal world... I think that message is as strong as ever.
Even if we did assume that ALL people who vote for liberals don't share that message... Nationally liberals are barely, barely winning (and if you listen to the PT Board, they cheated to even get there). Which again tells me the majority - or very close to the majority - still believes that message and is spreading it... and I think that's a worse case scenario.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:42 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:play stupid games win stupid prizes
LGBTQ teens tend to really struggle through those years. Many commit suicide due to their inability to cope with the rejection they may face at home or in school.
I know my son's class had 2 gay kids commit suicide because of the way their parents reacted to them.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:46 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I don't envy kids in this era, even though I forcefully suggest that their problems are largely of their own creation and will be blips and meaningless in time.
I often have this conversation with my teenager when it comes to social media. I've taken the position that trying to just tell her never to use it, isn't realistic, so instead, we monitor it, and we have given her time-outs when needed.
I tell them to be careful with what they post... that stuff is never really deleted. I tell them that because I also know hiring managers who are interviewing college kids for internships and entry level positions, who scour social media looking for stuff on the kid.
And maybe in 8 years time we won't care about that stuff anymore, and it will be a blip and meaningless. But if hiring managers I know are looking for it now... I have to assume they will look for it in the future.
Look... when I was in HS... we had gay kids, kids on drugs, goth kids, whatever. We did stupid stuff all the time. Thankfully... we didn't have a way for someone to record our stupid stuff and post it online. We remember what we did - and after a few beers we talk about what we got away with years ago - but it's among friends and that's it.
Social media has allowed my child to stay close with kids she knew when we lived in Texas. I think she is better for that. When I was a kid and friends moved away, especially out of state... that was it. Now, kids can maintain something of a friendship.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:49 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Even if we did assume that ALL people who vote for liberals don't share that message... Nationally liberals are barely, barely winning (and if you listen to the PT Board, they cheated to even get there). Which again tells me the majority - or very close to the majority - still believes that message and is spreading it... and I think that's a worse case scenario.
Eh, winning elections doesn't mean that much when 90% of institutions with influence adopt one position.
Corporations, academia, government bureaucracy, media, entertainment, etc. - Looking at it as a 50-48% situation doesn't tell the story.
The message I'm talking about - where is it in popular culture?
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:52 am to LSUFanHouston
Yeah I agree with that, I meant it more in the way that bullying can be pervasive and follow you home, but all you said is accurate.
And the bullying is what I'm talking about when I mean it becomes irrelevant. In a healthy society, when you're 30 the names you were called at 15 shouldn't matter to the overwhelming majority of people. If it's still eating you up, we've got a failed culture.
And the bullying is what I'm talking about when I mean it becomes irrelevant. In a healthy society, when you're 30 the names you were called at 15 shouldn't matter to the overwhelming majority of people. If it's still eating you up, we've got a failed culture.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 11:54 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
LGBTQ teens tend to really struggle through those years. Many commit suicide due to their inability to cope with the rejection they may face at home or in school.
Then they should choose to be normal
This post was edited on 9/23/21 at 11:55 am
Page 7 of 9
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News