- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Fired IT employees sue LSU
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:19 am to teke184
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:19 am to teke184
quote:Agreed.
Two - Universities having antiquated mainframe setups which handle their systems isn’t really out of the ordinary. Part of the reason many of these systems limp on is that any conversion to a new platform, such as in my first example, tends to be a multi-year clusterfrick because half of what you want is on the old system and half is on the new.
Arkansas in this is boat as well. They are in the process of transferring from their antiquated mainframe to Workday. It is a messy process, but it has to be done.
UA Selects Workday as ERP Solution
This post was edited on 4/25/19 at 9:23 am
0
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:25 am to CarRamrod
quote:
do you understand laws state, to have this job, you must live in LA, and register your vehicle in LA. This is a job for a state funded school, not some corporate company. I dont see how you dont see the difference
The law is horseshite but obviously must be abided
The duties of 3 of the 4 personnel could have been performed remotely. Many In the IT world telecommute. This law hinders LSUs ability to attract talented IT professionals.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:32 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:agreed and probably.
The law is horseshite but obviously must be abided
The duties of 3 of the 4 personnel could have been performed remotely.
quote:But wouldnt you rather some talented LA IT guy/gal to get these jobs? I mean i would bet there is someone in LA who can do these jobs just as good as one of these people.
This law hinders LSUs ability to attract talented IT professionals.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:41 am to WhiskeyThrottle
quote:
According to our cobol developers, there isn't any other language that processes massive data loads as efficient as COBOL. We run over 7 million transactions a month through a COBOL based language through Linux and it is efficient, quick and accurate. We write the output to copybooks, and those copybooks are picked up by C# and SQL programs and used in more modern coded systems. I can't imagine banks and financial institutions keeping this language around when there is a more efficient language to be used even if the cost runs in the millions.
As several have mentioned before, it sounds like the hardware is the problem moreso than the code.
Convincing arguments could be made for either side here, but I won't do it. IT staff will defend their turf, like anybody else. They may also be eager to work on newer, "cooler" stuff.
Bottom line is IT is an asset, not a fashion show. OLD does not mean BAD. It's subject to cost benefit analysis. Does it do the job? Will it CONTINUE to do the job? Are you needs / processes going to change? SHOULD they change? Will your support staff retire out? Are you vendors sunsetting support to your hardware / COTS, etc?
Replacing IT that works is a timing call. Bleeding edge has its own risks, same as the "outdated" systems. The IT described in the OP is to meet business needs, not to give IT staff something cool to work on. That is the only reason it exists. In short, it's a tool.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:44 am to CarRamrod
quote:
But wouldnt you rather some talented LA IT guy/gal to get these jobs? I mean i would bet there is someone in LA who can do these jobs just as good as one of these people.
You assume there’s enough talent in the state willing to work for LSU.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:45 am to CarRamrod
quote:
But wouldnt you rather some talented LA IT guy/gal to get these jobs?
yes, but this leads down the rabbit hole of LA not being able to retain LA born / LA educated talent. Because they leave for a better living and salary in Texas or elsewhere. The vast majority of IT talent has 0 desire to stick around for a salary that is only 60-70% of what it could be 4 hours down the road.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:49 am to TigerCoon
quote:
OLD does not mean BAD. It's subject to cost benefit analysis. Does it do the job?
Forgive me for what I admit to be an elementary question. I’m way out of my depth on data integration
Does the fact this system uses COBOL hinder LSUs ability to use the metadata and/or combine it with other, more modern datasets?
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:51 am to WhiskeyThrottle
The problem isn’t the language itself as much as few teach it anymore and the programmers who know it tend to be of retirement age.
I WAS taught COBOL in college, post-Y2K, and took it in spite of all the CompSci majors I know telling me it was a waste of time.
It got me hired on at my current employer as part of a transition from COBOL to Visual Basic and MS SQL Server. Before me, the last programmers they hired had to be sent to a COBOL boot camp simply because no one could be found with those skills already in their repertoir.
Being unable to find people to maintain it means that your choices are either to let your system languish on life support or to hire a conversion company to take you off the legacy COBOL mainframe.
Even when the latter is technically done right, there are still issues. This morning, I’m actively trying to fix something that the conversion crew fricked up when they walked the data over back in 2004 because a subsequent conversion exposed a problem not realized at the time.
I WAS taught COBOL in college, post-Y2K, and took it in spite of all the CompSci majors I know telling me it was a waste of time.
It got me hired on at my current employer as part of a transition from COBOL to Visual Basic and MS SQL Server. Before me, the last programmers they hired had to be sent to a COBOL boot camp simply because no one could be found with those skills already in their repertoir.
Being unable to find people to maintain it means that your choices are either to let your system languish on life support or to hire a conversion company to take you off the legacy COBOL mainframe.
Even when the latter is technically done right, there are still issues. This morning, I’m actively trying to fix something that the conversion crew fricked up when they walked the data over back in 2004 because a subsequent conversion exposed a problem not realized at the time.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:53 am to Tigeralum2008
This is part of the problem.
Unless something has changed recently, no college in LA offers a course in COBOL.
Southern Miss offered it as recently as the early 2000s but I don’t know if that is still the case.
Unless something has changed recently, no college in LA offers a course in COBOL.
Southern Miss offered it as recently as the early 2000s but I don’t know if that is still the case.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:55 am to teke184
the class at LATech dried up in the early 2000's as well.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:58 am to Friscodog
quote:
Old programmers in their 40s-50s can make some serious $$$ as a COBOL developer consultant. Seen a few places that pay $100-125/hr
You might want to double or triple those rates.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:06 am to Tigeralum2008
Let's not get too nerdy-- I don't know LSU's specifics. Quick answer - inherently in the COBOL I've experienced, you'd be right, but I have not followed advances in the COBOL world for a long time, so I don't know how it has evolved. Using metadata, etc. plays into the "needs" statement I made.
Don't take me as a COBOL evangelist or a luddite. I can speak to both sides because I am fossil who evolved as technology changed. My world has been projects to replace "old" with "new", including all the nasty data conversion / migration that folks accurately described in this thread.
Don't take me as a COBOL evangelist or a luddite. I can speak to both sides because I am fossil who evolved as technology changed. My world has been projects to replace "old" with "new", including all the nasty data conversion / migration that folks accurately described in this thread.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:08 am to teke184
quote:
Visual Basic
There's another blast from my past.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:08 am to Klark Kent
quote:i believe you are in IT Do you make between 270k- 150? i bet you dont and would love to take one of these jobs.
yes, but this leads down the rabbit hole of LA not being able to retain LA born / LA educated talent. Because they leave for a better living and salary in Texas or elsewhere. The vast majority of IT talent has 0 desire to stick around for a salary that is only 60-70% of what it could be 4 hours down the road.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:12 am to Pitt Road
quote:
You might want to double or triple those rates.
You got some names? I'll type COBOL with my feet for 375 an hour.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:18 am to CarRamrod
Damn. That's some bank, but that's also a very small niche in the IT job market, like others have eluded to. And you would likely always have that storm cloud hanging over your head that at some point, your employer may say enough is enough with that old mainframe and COBOL, let's upgrade. Then I'm having to uproot my life and move for another job that could do the same a few years down the road.
And to my point: I bet the average Louisiana IT job salary is a third of that $270k or half of $150k salary. in fact i know it is. Look at IBM, a revolving door of young talent that bails as soon as they get a few years under their belt (i.e. resume). the starting salary for most IT jobs in LA offer college graduates is pathetic. No one is sticking around Louisiana for $40k-$60k starting salary when there are better opportunities within a few hour drive.
me personally: 150k-$270k salary. nope, not there. But working on it and am not far off the lower end of that range. but I also have 0 interest in a career in COBOL or living in Baton Rouge, tbh.
I'm sold on Texas, it's a better life, better economy, more to do, and more opportunity. I love Louisiana as much as anyone, but am not willing to live there unless i was guaranteed $150k+ for the rest of my career.
And to my point: I bet the average Louisiana IT job salary is a third of that $270k or half of $150k salary. in fact i know it is. Look at IBM, a revolving door of young talent that bails as soon as they get a few years under their belt (i.e. resume). the starting salary for most IT jobs in LA offer college graduates is pathetic. No one is sticking around Louisiana for $40k-$60k starting salary when there are better opportunities within a few hour drive.
me personally: 150k-$270k salary. nope, not there. But working on it and am not far off the lower end of that range. but I also have 0 interest in a career in COBOL or living in Baton Rouge, tbh.
I'm sold on Texas, it's a better life, better economy, more to do, and more opportunity. I love Louisiana as much as anyone, but am not willing to live there unless i was guaranteed $150k+ for the rest of my career.
This post was edited on 4/25/19 at 10:24 am
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:29 am to CarRamrod
quote:
i believe you are in IT Do you make between 270k- 150? i bet you dont and would love to take one of these jobs.
These guys weren't coders. Based on their titles, they were "executives", likely responsible for budgets, planning, staffing, maybe procurement, etc., like other executives. The fact that they weren't state employees likely had something to do with the way the legislature appropriates money to a university, or maybe to get around civil service. I didn't read the article that closely.
Not saying they earned their money. That's big dollars for Baton Rouge.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:42 am to TigerCoon
Based on their salaries and the mention of legacy systems in Bankston’s statement, my guess is that they were hired to oversee a multi-year conversion of the legacy systems to something more modern and portable.
Typically, those kinds of jobs are contracted out via bidding rather than handed to a WAE hired by the agency / governor.
Typically, those kinds of jobs are contracted out via bidding rather than handed to a WAE hired by the agency / governor.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:50 am to teke184
Side tangent
We really need to hold LSU’s CS/ISDS depts (or lack thereof) accountable as well
I have not heard good things about their program which is a damn crime considering LSU is experiencing first hand the pain of an understaffed IT department
We really need to hold LSU’s CS/ISDS depts (or lack thereof) accountable as well
I have not heard good things about their program which is a damn crime considering LSU is experiencing first hand the pain of an understaffed IT department
This post was edited on 4/25/19 at 11:01 am
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:54 am to Tigeralum2008
I’d say you are pointing a finger in the wrong direction. Point it at ISDS instead.
CS will teach you how to program. ISDS is supposed to teach you how to maintain and run an application for an organization.
CS will teach you how to program. ISDS is supposed to teach you how to maintain and run an application for an organization.
Page 6 of 7
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News