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re: Father of Child Murdered at Sandy Hook Faces Death Threats

Posted on 1/17/16 at 5:41 pm to
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112944 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 5:41 pm to
quote:

Sometimes when you don't believe what 98% of the rest of the country believes, it's not a hallmark of you being an independent thinker. Sometimes it's a hallmark that there are flaws with your rational framework. That doesn't mean you're crazy. It just means you don't have a sound intellectual epistemology.

No clue what the last word means, but I still feel like this is a very solid take.
Posted by IceTiger
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
26584 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:33 pm to
quote:

d he said the CIA told all of them what to do and what to say, basically.


That's not what I said, they earn a livelihood based on doing what their bosses tell them, yes they are paid to do as their told

Posted by Clutch Cargo
Over the top
Member since Dec 2011
1388 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:35 pm to
quote:

That's not what I said, they earn a livelihood based on doing what their bosses tell them, yes they are paid to do as their told


And you're either batshit crazy or... Nah. You're batshit crazy.
Posted by IceTiger
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
26584 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:35 pm to
quote:

s, it's not a hallmark of you being an independent thinker. Sometimes it's a hallmark that there are flaws with your rational framework. That doesn't mean you're crazy. It just means you don't have a sound intellectual epistemology.


Upon this rationale, atheists do not have a sound intellectual epistemology?

They do not share the majority Americans agnostic or religious beliefs.

Defend your claim.
Posted by IceTiger
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
26584 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:39 pm to
quote:

And not a one single person decided to speak out about that, crazy!!!


If you watch some of those independent investigation videos, then follow up with reports, you might see some anomalies as well...

Watch the video posted above.

Or keep calling me crazy, which is what you like to do. I love Internet bullies, so tough.
Posted by IceTiger
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
26584 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:40 pm to
quote:

ther batshit crazy or... Nah. You're batshit crazy.


Love the internet bullying...keep it coming.
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61797 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:42 pm to
Dude athiest are a much bigger part of the population than you tards.

Kind of a much different and difficult argument to debate too. Nice try though
Posted by IceTiger
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
26584 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:47 pm to
quote:

Dude athiest are a much bigger part of the population than you tards.

Kind of a much different and difficult argument to debate too. Nice try though


Stay on point he said explicitly that if you did not believe what 98% of the population believes, based on no proof at all, there is something wrong with the ability to construct a rational case.

So, your counterpoint is that since atheists are are larger portion of the population then that does not apply.

State at which portion of the population must agree with one before they are determined 'crazy'
Posted by IceTiger
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
26584 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:03 pm to
quote:

athiest are a much bigger part of the population than you tards.


LINK

After looking into this, atheist make up 13% of the population...

And after looking at several other polls, including the potentially spammed one above, a significant portion of the population suggests that there is validity to the claims that it is not as it seems.

I stopped looking into it a while back, but that video posted above has some points a rational mind such as yours could look into, you know, since I'm crazy and cannot draw rational conclusions.
Posted by Grim
Member since Dec 2013
12489 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:23 pm to
quote:

Stay on point he said explicitly that if you did not believe what 98% of the population believes, based on no proof at all, there is something wrong with the ability to construct a rational case. 

No he didn't. He said
quote:

Sometimes it's a hallmark that there are flaws with your rational framework

Posted by Grim
Member since Dec 2013
12489 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:29 pm to
And the reason atheism is a poor analogy is that atheists aren't making a claim that contradicts substantial evidence
Posted by IceTiger
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
26584 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:44 pm to
quote:

And the reason atheism is a poor analogy is that atheists aren't making a claim that contradicts substantial evidence


The crazy part of this is...neither am I

I merely said I'm not informed enough to draw a conclusion on the event...

I've made no claims, just that evidence is ambiguous, redacted and the film evidence doesn't back the event log in the official report.

Posted by IceTiger
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
26584 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:50 pm to
quote:

No he didn't. He said
quote:
Sometimes it's a hallmark that there are flaws with your rational framework


Good, I concede that he said a potential exists to not build a rational framework...
My counterpoint is that same potential for irrational idea construction exists in the majority population as well. Or "sometimes people of a population have hallmarks that are flaws in constructing rational framework."

Making his entire statement no value on this topic.


Posted by Grim
Member since Dec 2013
12489 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 8:18 pm to
quote:

I merely said I'm not informed enough to draw a conclusion on the event... 

I've made no claims, just that evidence is ambiguous, redacted and the film evidence doesn't back the event log in the official report.

This is a cop-out. Everyone has a gut feeling about what they think is true based on the evidence they've seen. Just tell us, what is your gut feeling?
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
129721 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 8:30 pm to
quote:

Upon this rationale, atheists do not have a sound intellectual epistemology? They do not share the majority Americans agnostic or religious beliefs. Defend your claim.


Some do, some don't. Some are mad at God because their mom died. Some have decided that intellectually they do not believe in God. It's not a binary question and there's not a binary answer.

And I didn't say anywhere in my post that reality or logic or truth is necessarily dictated by consensus. It's just that if you are going to depart from an established consensus, you should have quantifiable reasons for doing so. Not something like "I saw Americares was involved and they do Afghanistan contracting."
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
129721 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 8:32 pm to
quote:

Good, I concede that he said a potential exists to not build a rational framework... My counterpoint is that same potential for irrational idea construction exists in the majority population as well. Or "sometimes people of a population have hallmarks that are flaws in constructing rational framework." Making his entire statement no value on this topic.


My statement is completely accurate. I would agree that there are things which are held up as a consensus which are not logical and not backed by data. Sandy Hook is not such a thing.
Posted by IceTiger
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
26584 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 8:33 pm to
quote:


This is a cop-out. Everyone has a gut feeling about what they think is true based on the evidence they've seen. Just tell us, what is your gut feeling?


What's your gut feeling? What evidence do you have to prove it? What do you have to say about the CIA connection points, the drug industry connection points and the eventual gun laws that resulted?
What's your take that although Adam Lanza's body is reported to have been at the crime scene...that same report says the substitute teacher's DNA is found on the rounds in the gun?

I can't have a gut feeling when there is no consistent evidence in the case. We have memorials, we have a bunch of activities around the school, that's about it.

What is the counterpoint to these claims?

What non emotional argument do you have to the website uploads for united way and other websites 1-5 days prior to the event?

I'm not hearing any of these arguments...just that I'm a loon, crazy, and I'm supposed to have a gut feeling about something where the CIA has a consistent presence?

Why doesn't anyone want to challenge these claims, nothing but scoffing and namecalling?

If you give me sound counterclaims, I'll give you a gut feeling until then...one side is all name calling and emotion and some inconsistent or unavailable evidence, the other side is a substantial list of anomalies that when taken by themselves could easily be called glitches or mistakes or mild errors...as a whole they provide a shadow that leads anyone to believe that unless Connecticut wishes to release the redacted evidence...the public should be apprehensive about an incident that took place 1500 miles from their hometown.

Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
129721 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 8:35 pm to
quote:

The crazy part of this is...neither am I I merely said I'm not informed enough to draw a conclusion on the event... I've made no claims, just that evidence is ambiguous, redacted and the film evidence doesn't back the event log in the official report.


This is a poor dodge. You're not saying you're not informed enough to draw a conclusion. You're actively trying to poke holes in established and documented facts for an undisclosed (and you won't disclose it ever) reason. The reason you won't disclose it is that deep down in your heart, you know it's crazy. But you want to hold on to it in your brain rather than subject it to analysis and have to either let it go or admit you have a cognitive dissonance.
Posted by IceTiger
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
26584 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 8:37 pm to
quote:

My statement is completely accurate


I did not refute your assertion of SOMETIMES...

I agreed and said it equally applies to the majority population as well.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
129721 posts
Posted on 1/17/16 at 8:38 pm to
quote:

I did not refute your assertion of SOMETIMES... I agreed and said it equally applies to the majority population as well.


Sometimes it does. This isn't one of those cases.
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