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Message
re: End of a species? The last Northern White Rhino male has died; only 2 females remain
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:25 am to Darth_Vader
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:25 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Now do exactly what I expect and give the typical “you’re argument is dumb”. This is the standard emotional response from someone unable to muster anything of substance.
I don't think your argument is dumb. It is devalued by your poor writing skills. But I don't think it's dumb just because I don't agree with it.
1
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:27 am to Slagathor
quote:
You keep saying that we can believe in evolution like it's a religion that we can practice. You used the word 'believe' a LOT. It sticks out.
Well, being that it’s still a theory, it sort of is a religion. And again, if you beleive in evolution you should want to not get in its way. We are not the first apex predator on this planet to cause the extinction of species. We just happen to be the best at it. So if we truly believe in the notion of evolution, we need to let the chips fall where they may when it comes to which species survive and which ones don’t.
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:30 am to Pecker
African elephants are also a threatened species, with the Forest variety at an increasing risk of extinction.
All large land mammals will struggle to adapt to deforestation, climate change, poaching, etc.
Giraffe - 15 months
Rhino - 18 months
Elephants - 22 months
They simply can't breed fast enough to recover at a replacement level without an insane amount of protection and human assistance. These rhinos couldn't breed regularly even with IVF. Giant pandas are only fertile for 24-36 hours per year. Humans successfully engineering a breeding program to grow large animal populations is the exception, not the rule.
All large land mammals will struggle to adapt to deforestation, climate change, poaching, etc.
Giraffe - 15 months
Rhino - 18 months
Elephants - 22 months
They simply can't breed fast enough to recover at a replacement level without an insane amount of protection and human assistance. These rhinos couldn't breed regularly even with IVF. Giant pandas are only fertile for 24-36 hours per year. Humans successfully engineering a breeding program to grow large animal populations is the exception, not the rule.
This post was edited on 3/20/18 at 10:31 am
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:30 am to Slagathor
quote:
don't think your argument is dumb. It is devalued by your poor writing skills. But I don't think it's dumb just because I don't agree with it.
It’s a fricking message board, not a high school English term paper. All you do by trying to point out spelling errors (as though you have no idea how fricked up Apple autocorrect is) only serves to prove you can’t debate the subject at hand. Instead you look desperate to distract people from noticing you don’t have anything of substance to contribute to the conversation.
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:31 am to Darth_Vader
Our ability to make the decision of preserving or eliminating a species is "nature" in and of itself, because after all we are part of nature aren't we?
It doesn't go against the theory of evolution. We evolved to make decisions, and we've decided we want to keep certain species alive.
It doesn't go against the theory of evolution. We evolved to make decisions, and we've decided we want to keep certain species alive.
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:32 am to Darth_Vader
Humans making a species go extinct is not evolution
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:32 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
So if we truly believe in the notion of evolution, we need to let the chips fall where they may when it comes to which species survive and which ones don’t.
Humans artificially caused the extinction of this rhino. It wasn't some kind of natural event like a virus.
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:32 am to GetCocky11
This is sad shite. Wiped out because people believed there was some sort of magic healing power in their horns. What makes me even sadder is that I know plenty of hunters here in America who would push a button that would make coyotes, bears, wolves, bobcats, etc extinct without a second thought simply because it might make their deer/turkey hunting marginally better.
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:33 am to Pecker
As a follow-up to what I said earlier, Save the Rhino International is starting to come around to the potential benefits of legalizing the sale of rhino horn (in some capacity) to combat poaching. African countries are also looking into the legalizing of the rhino horn trade:
quote:
The debate over whether or not to legalise the trade in rhino horn tends to polarise opinion. Let’s start with the two central tenets that people in all camps can agree on. Firstly, we all want to see more rhinos in more viable populations in the wild. Secondly, we all accept that there is no silver bullet that will solve the rhino poaching crisis: legal trade on its own will not work; anti-poaching patrols on their own will not work. So the question should really be: what combination of approaches should we adopt to ensure that rhino numbers and rhino population numbers continue to grow?
Legalising the trade may be one of these approaches and is being actively discussed or supported by South Africa and Swaziland. There are several different options for a legalised trade in rhino horn. link
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:35 am to Slagathor
quote:
What do you do for a living that doesn't require knowledge of "I before E except after C"?
I don't know about him, but I go to neighboring countries weighing their ancient glaciers.
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:36 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Humans artificially caused the extinction of this rhino. It wasn't some kind of natural event like a virus.
Predatory species have caused other species to go extinct before. Humans are not the first to do this, nor will we be the last. Again, either we are part of evolution or we are not if we are going to believe in evolution, then we need to really believe in evolution. And as sad as the loss of this species of rhino is, it’s part of evolution.
Sorry. Life is harsh children and usually doesn’t have a happy ending. Welcome to the real world, buttercup.
This post was edited on 3/20/18 at 10:37 am
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:36 am to celltech1981
quote:
What makes me even sadder is that I know plenty of hunters here in America who would push a button that would make coyotes, bears, wolves, bobcats, etc extinct without a second thought
Add snakes to that list.
The outdoor board is a huge collection of white trash
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:36 am to SSpaniel
quote:
I don't know about him, but I go to neighboring countries weighing their ancient glaciers.
Don't make get my rhino to shoot you with the laser horn! Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:37 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Sorry. Life is harsh children and usually doesn’t have a happy ending. Welcome to the real world, buttercup
You don't have to do the double preach and be a dickhead at the same time
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:39 am to Deactived
quote:
Sorry. Life is harsh children and usually doesn’t have a happy ending. Welcome to the real world, buttercup
You don't have to do the double preach and be a dickhead at the same time
Sorry. I don’t pump sunshine up peoples arse. I tend to despise bullshite and prefers to be direct, to the point, and brutally honest. If that’s too “harsh” for some then all I can say is go grab your coloring book and head for your safe space.
My work here is done.
This post was edited on 3/20/18 at 10:40 am
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:42 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
So again, I ask. Do we beleive [sic] in evolution and survival of the fittest or do we not?
Are you saying that some rhino, or another creature, must have the genetic mutation to somehow survive a gunshot, recognize what exactly has harmed it, or react to avoid a confrontation that they likely never see coming? How does something adapt to a bullet they never knew was coming and have little chance of surviving?
For the most part, man as a predator is not the same as say a lion or a wolf. They tend to take the weak or young, aren't always successful, and, therefore, put fear into survivors. These survivors also may possess traits that can be passed on to future generations. But let's not forget that the predators evolve in conjunction with their prey. As prey adapt, so do their predators.
Evolution is basically a genetic standoff for the most part. It has no end goal.
The very fact that there are still rhinos, and other megafauna, in Africa is likely proof that they evolved in the presence of humans. However, the jump from simple weapons and traps to firearms is not something they can overcome.
Biological diversity has intrinsic value to many. Noticing and correcting our mistakes when it comes to nature is not a bad thing.
It's obvious you have a utilitarian view of the natural world. Perhaps some of these creatures and plants that humans are driving to extinction hold the genetic key to curing some disease or making some other valuable chemical product. But due to wanton destruction of habitat and overharvesting, they are gone before we ever know. That's why we should strive to keep as many things extant as we can.
Edit: changed the "or" in bold above from "and."
This post was edited on 3/20/18 at 11:46 am
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:42 am to rintintin
quote:
American buffalo
Evolution is not a fast process. The American Buffalo had evolved to not run from predators. This worked for wolves and even early humans with primative weapons. When men with guns came along the buffalo would just bunch up and get shot from a distance. There are accounts of buffalo hunters having to piss on their gun barrels because of how much they were shooting. This isn't because the animal was weak or unfit to survive. It was because we were using advanced technology with no understanding of the repercussions of this. Buffalo are pretty important to a lot of the ecosystem. Just their wallows provide water for insects and small reptiles to breed and provide food for other animals. Just letting them die after 20 years of us hunting them would and did have a chain reaction to the rest of the environment.
Another good example of a species not being able to evolve to our technology fast enough is the passenger pigeon. There either has to be a billion of them or zero of them for the way they breed to work. The sheer numbers of them overwhelms predators and when their young hatch some are bound to survive. We came along with shotguns, rocket fired nets, and traps and decimated their population to the point that their young were not hatching in numbers enough to survive attrition by predation.
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:43 am to Darth_Vader
quote:youre such a dumbass
Well, being that it’s still a theory, it sort of is a religion. And again, if you beleive in evolution you should want to not get in its way. We are not the first apex predator on this planet to cause the extinction of species
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:43 am to Muthsera
quote:
African elephants are also a threatened species, with the Forest variety at an increasing risk of extinction.
All large land mammals will struggle to adapt to deforestation, climate change, poaching, etc.
Giraffe - 15 months
Rhino - 18 months
Elephants - 22 months
They simply can't breed fast enough to recover at a replacement level without an insane amount of protection and human assistance. These rhinos couldn't breed regularly even with IVF. Giant pandas are only fertile for 24-36 hours per year. Humans successfully engineering a breeding program to grow large animal populations is the exception, not the rule.
The listing of animals as "threatened" has become increasingly meaningless as the definition of the classification has become increasingly broad. We're also ignoring the fact that clamping down on the ivory trade has only served to drive up the black market cost of ivory, which has incentivized poaching. Also, some species of African elephant are doing just fine irrespective of gestation periods.
quote:
According to the World Wildlife Fund, in 2014 the total population of African elephants was estimated to be around 700,000, and the Asian elephant population was estimated to be around 32,000. The population of African elephants in Southern Africa is large and expanding, with more than 300,000 within the region
The idea that criminalizing a particular trade is going to eradicate that trade, is fundamentally at odds with the market forces of supply and demand. This is not only true for rhino horn or ivory, it's been true for the alcohol trade, drug trade, etc.
This post was edited on 3/20/18 at 10:49 am
Posted on 3/20/18 at 10:43 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Again, either we are part of evolution or we are not if we are going to believe in evolution, then we need to really believe in evolution.
Again, us preserving the species is still a part of evolution if you indeed believe humans are just another evolutionary predator. We either choose to eliminate them, or we choose to preserve them.
You can't have one without the other.
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