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re: Do you find it hard to reason with staunch religious people?
Posted on 11/4/25 at 4:38 pm to northshorebamaman
Posted on 11/4/25 at 4:38 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
That’s a non sequitur. Nobody in my post said anything about the age of the Earth or anyone demanding proof of it. I was talking about tone and behavior, not geology. Seems like you might’ve crossed wires somewhere understanding the difference between “how people argue” and “what they’re arguing about.”
That's fair.
Do I believe the earth is 6000 years old?
I wasn't here when it was created, so I don't KNOW. No matter what position I take, I'm taking on faith.
That is my point, that both sides of the Age of the Earth argument have their "evidence". One is based on man's observations, one is based on man divinely inspired by the Creator. I have no faith in man, so it's hard to take a side, but if I'm going to take one, like Pascal, I'm going to take the side that errs on the side of divinity.
2
Posted on 11/4/25 at 4:42 pm to deeprig9
quote:Well, forgive me if I’m misunderstanding you, but your response only really makes sense if you’re assuming I’ve based all my observations about believer vs. nonbeliever arguments on this one thread alone. That’s not the case, and nothing I said depended on that premise.
OK then.
Posted on 11/4/25 at 4:45 pm to YouKnowImRight
quote:
Pascal's wager says you won't be disappointed in her outcome either way.
Unless, of course, some other deity exists and sees fit to punish Christians for not adhering to its brand of theism - or the infinite number of other possibilities that await humans after death. Man has conjured quite a few.
Posted on 11/4/25 at 4:52 pm to YouKnowImRight
quote:That's fine but you’ve skipped over the debate part entirely. Once you assume divine inspiration, the conclusion is already baked in. There’s no “weighing both sides” left to do if one of them starts with “God told us.” There's nothing wrong with that, but those that disagree with you don't share your belief in the same divine inspiration.
That's fair.
Do I believe the earth is 6000 years old?
I wasn't here when it was created, so I don't KNOW. No matter what position I take, I'm taking on faith.
That is my point, that both sides of the Age of the Earth argument have their "evidence". One is based on man's observations, one is based on man divinely inspired by the Creator. I have no faith in man, so it's hard to take a side, but if I'm going to take one, like Pascal, I'm going to take the side that errs on the side of divinity.
And Pascal’s Wager doesn’t really hold up. You can’t choose belief like flipping a switch. You either find the claim convincing or you don’t. Pretending to believe “just in case” isn’t faith, it’s hedging a bet you don’t actually think is true. I would assume the Christian God could see through such a tactic.
Posted on 11/4/25 at 5:25 pm to YouKnowImRight
quote:If we take the Christian conception of God seriously, omniscient, just, and all knowing, wouldn’t He immediately know whether someone’s belief is sincere or just a precautionary bet?
Pascal's wager says you won't be disappointed in her outcome either way.
And if He values genuine faith, wouldn’t wagering belief for personal gain be the opposite of that?
If belief based on fear or probability isn’t genuine, how does Pascal’s Wager actually help someone in the eyes of that kind of God?
Posted on 11/4/25 at 5:37 pm to northshorebamaman
I identify as Christian and I think Pascal's Wager is dumb. I thought it was dumb the first time I heard it when I was a kid.
Posted on 11/4/25 at 5:44 pm to YouKnowImRight
quote:
YouKnowImRight
quote:
Do I believe the earth is 6000 years old?
I wasn't here when it was created, so I don't KNOW. No matter what position I take, I'm taking on faith.
That is my point, that both sides of the Age of the Earth argument have their "evidence". One is based on man's observations, one is based on man divinely inspired by the Creator.
I have no faith in man, so it's hard to take a side, but if I'm going to take one, like Pascal, I'm going to take the side that errs on the side of divinity.
Very nice summation, brutha. Bullseye. God is Truth. Man is a Liar. No contest.
Just a quick couple of notes to add with respect to 'Pascal's Wager' --
Believing in God's existence simply because the upside is so much better is not only an intellectual but especially a spiritual trap of sorts; It still leaves this "believer" in a conundrum still. "God" offers no guarantees of any Heavenly Reward whatsoever without a heartfelt belief in the sacrifice and Gospel of His Son.
Jesus: " I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."] ~ (John 14:6.)
-- -- --
On Judgement Day might believers only in God ( "good people" but disbelievers in Jesus Christ) find mercy and grace with the Lord on Judgement Day? Maybe. We hope so. But as John 14:6 warns -- disbelievers won't be holy enough to see or stand in glory together with the Father and Son, nor dwell forever in "Heaven" in their presence.
Posted on 11/4/25 at 5:46 pm to deeprig9
quote:The logic is so obviously flawed that I've never understood how it got passed beyond Pascal's immediate friend group.
I identify as Christian and I think Pascal's Wager is dumb. I thought it was dumb the first time I heard it when I was a kid.
Posted on 11/4/25 at 5:49 pm to EphesianArmor
I agree.
Posted on 11/4/25 at 5:52 pm to northshorebamaman
Everyone's looking for an "out".
"Narrow gate"
But you know that.
"Narrow gate"
But you know that.
Posted on 11/4/25 at 5:59 pm to N2cars
Maybe, but I’d hope there aren’t too many Christians out there banking on Pascal’s Wager as their plan for salvation.
Posted on 11/4/25 at 6:00 pm to RoosterCogburn585
quote:
staunch religious people
Have a mental illness
Posted on 11/4/25 at 6:01 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
The logic is so obviously flawed that I've never understood how it got passed beyond Pascal's immediate friend group.
My wife is agnostic. But she knows there are spiritual forces at work in this reality.
Where do you stand?
Posted on 11/4/25 at 6:03 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
quote:
Try having a conversation with a militant atheist.
CrossFit, Atheist, Libertarian, Anti-Vaxxer, etc
Trump cultist…
Modern day democrat. Straight up brainwashed zombie
Posted on 11/4/25 at 6:11 pm to northshorebamaman
Do you think "Pascal's Wager", boiled down, is just, " If I'm good enough, I'll get in"?
Posted on 11/4/25 at 6:18 pm to deeprig9
quote:I’m agnostic too, and I’d say I also think there are forces behind the curtain, though I probably wouldn’t call them “spiritual.” Maybe “silicon” fits better. I don’t dismiss the idea of something beyond us.
My wife is agnostic. But she knows there are spiritual forces at work in this reality.
Where do you stand?
My working theory is that this reality’s more than likely a simulation. Not in the pop culture sense of some kid in a basement running a game, but as a layered system running multiple iterations for reasons we can’t see. Training loops, archive runs, maybe even self-evolving models we can influence.
From that angle, “supernatural” events or intuition could be artifacts of the system cross-talking between layers, data leaks, or even feedback from the architect itself (God?). I think there’s something beyond the surface, but I'm not certain it’s angels and demons. I think it’s code.
Posted on 11/4/25 at 6:21 pm to RoosterCogburn585
You clearly don’t understand faith.
I’m not religious, but I figured that out when I was still in high school years ago.
What's your idea of “reason with“? Unless they come around to your way of thinking they are “unreasonable“?
I’m not religious, but I figured that out when I was still in high school years ago.
What's your idea of “reason with“? Unless they come around to your way of thinking they are “unreasonable“?
Posted on 11/4/25 at 6:21 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
a simulation
A simulation of what?
Posted on 11/4/25 at 6:21 pm to N2cars
quote:If the person fully comprehends Pascal's Wager and is relying on it for spiritual salvation I can't think of another conclusion.
Do you think "Pascal's Wager", boiled down, is just, " If I'm good enough, I'll get in"?
Posted on 11/4/25 at 6:24 pm to EphesianArmor
quote:
God is Truth. Man is a Liar.
Everything you think you know about God comes from flawed men. Everything you think you feel about God comes from you, a flawed individual.
There are countless religions in the world, lies and honest mistakes happening somewhere every second of every day, and plenty of things both inside and outside the body that can deceive our delicate minds - and yet we have all this certainty over God.
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