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Started By
Message
re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:24 pm to Dizz
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:24 pm to Dizz
quote:
Art is protected speech, the courts don't think baking and decorating a basic wedding cake is art so it's not protected.
The courts also think how we spend our money and time is protected speech. That would apply to a business, no?
2
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:26 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
The ones on the side of the bakers are a dying breed of immoral trash. It's good our country is turning its back on trash like these bakers and their supporters.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:27 pm to ShreveportHog94
Right. Because you're acting like such an upstanding individual 
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:29 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
Not sure what you are getting at?
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:30 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Kentucker
I appreciate the back and forth. Won't be able to be on much longer today, but I'll try and respond to anything if I can.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:32 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Has nothing to do with the legality of the event, unless you are trying to argue that you can be forced to be a part of any event against your will, as long as the event is legal.
It has everything to do with the legality of the event. If you offer a service in the marketplace and a legal request is made for service then, yes, you must provide it. Unless you don't like the person, don't have the equipment to provide the service (such as needing a four-wheel drive to get somewhere) or other extenuating circumstances.
quote:
The painter doesn't have to validate anything. All they are doing is making a painting. He could make a painting of anything he wants, doesn't have to be anti-gay or anything. The only thing he is refusing is the ability to hang his product at an event he disagrees with.
Actually, he is saying that he doesn't want to say that he is anti-gay. It's a free speech event and he doesn't want to participate. He could, of course, participate and add his speech to that of the event.
quote:
Then, by your reasoning, it is okay for a business owner to discriminate against a customer's religious beliefs.
Not if he accommodates religious beliefs.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:33 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Right. Because you're acting like such an upstanding individual
Nope but it's good to be on the right side of history and knowing how to be a decent human in real life.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:35 pm to ShreveportHog94
quote:
Nope but it's good to be on the right side of history and knowing how to be a decent human in real life.
Right. Calling people immoral trash that you've never met before is the sign of a decent human
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:36 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
I appreciate the back and forth. Won't be able to be on much longer today, but I'll try and respond to anything if I can.
Me, too. I appreciate the civil discourse.
This post was edited on 12/29/17 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:38 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Actually, he is saying that he doesn't want to say that he is anti-gay. It's a free speech event and he doesn't want to participate. He could, of course, participate and add his speech to that of the event.
So these baker's could have showed up to the gay wedding with hats or pins antigay...and they would have been protected by free speech...
This post was edited on 12/29/17 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:38 pm to Kentucker
quote:
It has everything to do with the legality of the event. If you offer a service in the marketplace and a legal request is made for service then, yes, you must provide it. Unless you don't like the person, don't have the equipment to provide the service (such as needing a four-wheel drive to get somewhere) or other extenuating circumstances.
Like having a religious or immoral objection to the event?
quote:
Actually, he is saying that he doesn't want to say that he is anti-gay. It's a free speech event and he doesn't want to participate. He could, of course, participate and add his speech to that of the event.
And the baker, right or wrong, is saying they don't want to say they support gay marriage. It is the same issue, just switch the sides.
quote:
Not if he accommodates religious beliefs.
He is not accommodating a single religious belief here.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:46 pm to Steadyhands
quote:
So these baker's could have showed up to the gay wedding with hats or pins antigay...and they would have been protected by free speech...
Absolutely, now they could have been denied entry by the venue and simply left the cake on the curb.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:46 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Like having a religious or immoral objection to the event?
Religion is legal. So now are gay weddings, too. The Constitution automatically sets boundaries where these meet and each must be accommodated. The marketplace is a prime example where they meet. The Constitutional limit to religious rights comes into force here because the civil rights of the gay couple to be accommodated equally in the marketplace are in play.
quote:
And the baker, right or wrong, is saying they don't want to say they support gay marriage. It is the same issue, just switch the sides.
The baker is not right or wrong in stating their feelings about gay marriage. He is actively participating in the marketplace and he must accommodate every legal request for his service.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:53 pm to Steadyhands
quote:
So these baker's could have showed up to the gay wedding with hats or pins antigay...and they would have been protected by free speech...
Yes, they could but it's not wise to be that angry when you're in a crowd of your perceived opponents. Someone might decide to exercise his perceived right to flatten your tires, break your windshield or dump the cake on your head and seek to avoid the legal consequences. Posted on 12/29/17 at 1:11 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
If you hide behind religion as an excuse to be a bigoted scum then you are immoral
Posted on 12/29/17 at 1:20 pm to ShreveportHog94
quote:
If you hide behind religion as an excuse to be a bigoted scum then you are immoral
That's the entire premise of basic religious beliefs though. Is things that do not make common sense. So you are basically saying that there is absolutely no protections to religion.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 1:45 pm to baldona
If your religious belief interferes with the civil rights of others then no you are not protected. In fact, anyone who follows the teachings of Christ and the bible and singles out one sin that is arguably no different than eating bacon, then you are using religon to justify your prejudices.
This post was edited on 12/29/17 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 12/29/17 at 2:56 pm to baldona
quote:
That's the entire premise of basic religious beliefs though. Is things that do not make common sense. So you are basically saying that there is absolutely no protections to religion
Let's be real here the bakers were being prejudiced assholes. Everyone is using religious freedom to champion an issue that is a footnote in the bible. Homosexuality being so open is an new thing and people are not used to it and they find it oogie so they are assholes about it.
The problem is where do you draw the line. Are you allowed to not hire someone because they are gay because "private business" and "religious beliefs"? For what it's worth I don't necessarily think the bakers should have been fined, but if you leave the door to discrimination open just a crack assholes are going to tear the wall down rushing through it.
Posted on 12/30/17 at 1:00 pm to ShreveportHog94
quote:
It's always the ones who make minimum wage that are outspoken about how businesses should be run.
Min wage? Try again liberal dip shite.
Posted on 12/30/17 at 1:06 pm to baldona
quote:
That's the entire premise of basic religious beliefs though. Is things that do not make common sense. So you are basically saying that there is absolutely no protections to religion.
The premise is you have the right to BELIEVE what you want. When you act on those beliefs and impinge on the rights of others, that is where the problem occurs.
You can believe in a zombie cannibal god but you can not eat the flesh of other people bc you would commit murder in doning so.
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