re: Can you teach a child morality without religion?

quote:

---

our government? no, it wasn't

---

I really don’t even know where to begin

quote:

---

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

---

You have a certain world view that you are trying to rationalize and you are ignoring basic facts because of cognitive dissonance.

quote:

---

UNALIENABLE

---

Wait, so we're saying our laws and morals came from aliens?!

Chitown, thanks for your answer to my question...

quote:

---

what is the basis for absolute morality if there is no higher power

---

You replied...

quote:

---

Evolution and the ability for complex thought.

---

If I could prove that a pure master race represents the greatest of human progress, wouldn't evolutionary morality state that is a moral path to follow?

quote:

---

Of course it was,

---

which parts of the Constitution are based in Christianity?

SlowFlowPro, in one sentence you stated...

quote:

---

unless they're the lucky on the level of a Poewrball winner, they will be wrong (at least to us and how we perceive morality, which i'll be prideful and claim the high ground without issue)

---

Then you said...

quote:

---

and if you're trying to turn this into a morally relative argument, that dog don't hunt. we are talking about "morality" and my argument is that it's formed through societal trial and error. by its very definition, society is required and will be superior to anything close to our concept of morality found outside of society.

---

Do you see how those two statements are in conflict?

And if the North Korean government decides to murder people who convert to Islam or Christianity, is that moral? Their society has set the laws and rules, and from those rules they have developed a new morality, just like you said... Do I have that right?

quote:

---

I’m not going to get into the other 2 because history is blurry. So let’s talk about America.

You are claiming that’s america wasn’t founded based on Judeo-Christian moral principles?

---

I haven't read the entire thread, but as for as Roman, if I recall, I want to say Christianity was actually seen as a threat to the Roman empire. And while people who lived in Rome might of practiced their religious beliefs, they were not forced to have a certain religious view.

Same thing sort of applies to the United States. No one is forced to have a certain religious belief.

And settlers came to the new land, from England, because the King of England forced certain Christian beliefs on the people so people left in order to have their own religious beliefs. Separation of church and state sort of falls under the first amendment. So there is a difference between what is legal and illegal and what individuals consider to be moral and immoral.

Some people don't have sex until they are married for religious reasons, but it's not illegal for them to do it. So our government's laws were not created based on certain religious beliefs.

quote:

---

which parts of the Constitution are based in Christianity?

---

How about the Bill of Rights which protects our God given rights. Dummy

You can also tell a real a-hole when they can't just say "no, I don't believe in God" and instead have to run around trying to pretend history doesn't exist.

Every session of Congress stretching back to the very First Congressional Congress has opened with a prayer. A Congressional minister was named before George Washington was given command of the Continental Army.

quote:

---

other than these didn't even make the first cut, how often is God referenced in the BOT?

---

When you have to be obtuse and dishonest to make an argument, you are making a bad argument. What the same men who referenced God given rights when writing and signing the Declaration of Independence were suddenly "nah bro, there is no God" when it came time to protect those rights in the COTUS?

See, this is where simpletons get stuck every time, when simple basic logic can easily deduce that it is both truth that we were founded on Christian principles and that we not meant to be a theocracy.

quote:

---

our societal "morality" is superior. there is no relativism going on because of this superiority

---

Hitler could have made that same statement. How would you counteract Hitler quoting your statement as true for the Nazis?

quote:

---

no matter how many outlier examples you cite, they will still be outliers.

---

So it doesn't matter how much evidence I give you to disprove the assertion that my example is an outlier, you will still believe they are outliers? That's some faith you have there...

I agree with a lot of what you said. But we are talking about two different issues.

You are arguing that people can practice their own morals with the framework of society. And I totally agree. I even said an atheist can teach his child morality within the framework of modern society.

However, where we differ is that I’m not sure (and no one here is either) that modern society can produce the same moral framework and structure without god or atleast a belief in a higher power who gives us those core rights as individuals.

SFP has yet to describe how we get to the sovereignty of every human without god. He keeps saying “reason” but that’s him reasoning within a framework that was designed around religious principles so of course he would see individual rights as normal

As a side note, it’s been tried partially with Marxism. Where the state is more important than the individual.....