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Message
re: Bomber Harris - War Criminal?
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:20 pm to blueridgeTiger
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:20 pm to blueridgeTiger
I mean if people want to name every military leader a war criminal they probably can find something.
The Germans (who we acknowledge as war criminals and tried as war criminals) were bombing civilian targets.
There were detractors of this type of bombing at the time, so it’s not 100% hindsight, but it also isn’t cut and dry.
The Germans (who we acknowledge as war criminals and tried as war criminals) were bombing civilian targets.
There were detractors of this type of bombing at the time, so it’s not 100% hindsight, but it also isn’t cut and dry.
0
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:25 pm to blueridgeTiger
You may want to listen to the 4 part Podcast on Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History. It is in season 5 and starts with "The Bomber Mafia". It focuses on Lemay and how he and the "Bomber Mafia" believed bombers could win any war. There is a bit of time devoted to the development and implementation of the fire bombs. Gladwell just released a book on the subject but I haven't read it yet.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:36 pm to blueridgeTiger
Walk a mile in their shoes and then you can be deemed to possess the qualities befitting sound judgement.
Here we are in 2021 with the advent of smart bombs, satellites, stealth, AWACS, and all other forms of modern weaponology passing judgement on people who’s big advancement was the closely held secret of the American Norton Bomb site, and who’s bombs were still subjected to the whim of wind currents and cloud cover no matter what. One of their main bombers was made of fricking plywood for goodness sakes. Furthermore, our asses are perfectly safe, sound, and free from any threat of actual Nazi invasion which was a very real possibility at the time, but what do we care? Let’s take the throne and pass our absurd judgement on people for shite we never endured or were very concerned over, like our very lives and right to exist.
Here we are in 2021 with the advent of smart bombs, satellites, stealth, AWACS, and all other forms of modern weaponology passing judgement on people who’s big advancement was the closely held secret of the American Norton Bomb site, and who’s bombs were still subjected to the whim of wind currents and cloud cover no matter what. One of their main bombers was made of fricking plywood for goodness sakes. Furthermore, our asses are perfectly safe, sound, and free from any threat of actual Nazi invasion which was a very real possibility at the time, but what do we care? Let’s take the throne and pass our absurd judgement on people for shite we never endured or were very concerned over, like our very lives and right to exist.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:39 pm to blueridgeTiger
So what's the Blitz to them?
This whole revisionist history bull shite needs to stop.
ETA: can't help but think of A Few Good Men
This whole revisionist history bull shite needs to stop.
ETA: can't help but think of A Few Good Men
quote:
“BLM, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, BLM? Bomber Harris had a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Dresden, and you curse the RAF. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what Bomber Harris knows. That Dresden's bombing, while tragic, probably saved lives. And Bomber Harris' existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saved lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want Bomber Harris on that wall, you need Bomber Harris on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.”
This post was edited on 6/22/21 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:42 pm to blueridgeTiger
quote:
There have long been calls in Germany for an official apology for the UK’s Second World War bombing campaign.
I don't hear the Japanese whining about General Curtis LeMay bombing them back to the stone age.
This post was edited on 6/22/21 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:44 pm to blueridgeTiger
Curtis Lemay says hold my beer.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:46 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
There have long been calls in Germany for an official apology for the UK’s Second World War bombing campaign.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:47 pm to Jim Rockford
The first firebombing destroyed 17 square miles of Tokyo. The 3 hours of that first bombing are the deadliest 3 hours in the history of mankind.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:51 pm to blueridgeTiger
The heavy bomber raids against civilian targets were an abomination. And they did nothing to win the war either, they didn’t break the will of the people, they actually strengthened it.
But war is awful.
No apologies.
But war is awful.
No apologies.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:52 pm to greenbean
quote:
I don't hear the Japanese whining about General Curtis Lemay bombing them back to the stone age.
No shite, and if ever there was horrendous damage resulting from carpet bombing cities, it came from dropping incendiary bombs on cities made of wood and paper in Japan.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:52 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
It focuses on Lemay and how he and the "Bomber Mafia" believed bombers could win any war.
The Bomber boys were pretty full of themselves. Can't win a war without troops on the ground. Something our military still doesn't understand at times.
I think it was LeMay that said if we had lost he would have been charged as a war criminal for what he did to Japan.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:53 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
And they did nothing to win the war either
wrong
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:55 pm to BuckyCheese
Strategic bombing has never worked.
It’s an AirPower fantasy.
It’s an AirPower fantasy.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:57 pm to BuckyCheese
I’ll just leave this here
quote:
It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.
Robert E. Lee
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:59 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Strategic bombing has never worked.
It definitely works.
It just doesn't win a war on it's own the way prima donna's like Harris and LeMay claimed.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 3:06 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
No shite, and if ever there was horrendous damage resulting from carpet bombing cities, it came from dropping incendiary bombs on cities made of wood and paper in Japan.
There was debate in his day about limited strike bombing, but LeMay reasoned that making war as violate and as untenable as possible would result in the war being over quicker and lead to less loss of life.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 3:07 pm to CatfishJohn
quote:
There were some seriously fricked up bombing campaigns by the Allies on civilian rich targets that didn't have the military impact to justify it (and our opposition did similar obviously). We are not innocent of this.
It was all out total war. War is hell. Were there to be another fight to the finish unconditional surrender type of war today (not possible due to nuke arsenals), I would be ALL IN FAVOR of MASSIVE unrestricted bombing campaigns. You can't "PC Police" a fricking WAR. Crush the enemy state, and crush and destroy the will of their people into complete and total capitulation. That is how you win a war. Piss on the revisionists who want to now call foul. Bomber Harris and for that matter in the Pacific, Curtis LeMay, were spot on in the prosecution of their respective bombing campaigns. Even Nation States should be forced to reap what they sow.
This post was edited on 6/22/21 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 6/22/21 at 3:10 pm to greenbean
quote:
There was debate in his day about limited strike bombing, but LeMay reasoned that making war as violate and as untenable as possible would result in the war being over quicker and lead to less loss of life.
And he was absolutely right too. Hell, even after the first atomic bomb was dropped it required yet another to bring it to conclusion, and that was (arguably) with the threat of Russia entering the theatre.
The Japanese people were absolutely NOT going to roll over and concede jack shite. Our island hopping campaigns proved that. The only answer was to completely crush them and leave no doubt about it.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 3:24 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
And they did nothing to win the war either,
You sure about that?
Posted on 6/22/21 at 3:25 pm to Keltic Tiger
quote:
Germany waiting for an apology is one of the most hysterical, laughable comments about the war I've ever heard. The Allies wouldn't know where to start in demanding Germany apologize.
Had the exact same thought when I read that.
Apologizing for prosecution of the war against Germany would be the nadir of 21st century cultural and historical revisionism. The blowback in the US and UK would be unimaginable.
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