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Message
re: Biker Shootout at the Twin Peaks in Waco, TX
Posted on 5/19/15 at 9:41 pm to Kingpenm3
Posted on 5/19/15 at 9:41 pm to Kingpenm3
quote:
Happen to know what page it is on? Thread is getting lengthy. TIA
Here it is again
And a new update as well.
0
Posted on 5/19/15 at 9:44 pm to Darth_Vader
Waco seems to be a magnet for government shootings of citizens.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 9:46 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I don't.
But keep in mind, if we're living in a world where cops can mow down people they don't like, you'd better hope the powers that be don't one day suddenly decide they don't like something about you.
We will see. It still sounds like a stretch but not impossible... If it were true I'll call it wrong too.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 9:54 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
see it is shite like this that drives me nuts, "I know better than to ask!!" Like there are some dire consequences for even a question. Seems all want everyone to believe you are part of some deep dark underworld. But then wonder why all the innocents would've been mowed down. Seems inconsistent at best.
I never knew hell raisers spent so much time on message boards!
There are no consequences for asking, I just won't get an answer is all, so there is no point in asking. Oh and I am by no means part of any deep dark underworld, never claimed to be, what I am is a now clean and sober reformed criminal who just happens to know a little about this particular subculture, who also happened to grow up very near where all this happened and happens to know a few members of one of the clubs involved.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 9:55 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
A lil' Mudchecking going on at the Twin Peaks in Waco, TX
Don't expect a national outpouring of support for bike gang members.
If the facts start coming out that validate the assertions that website has found then the public will go nuts against law enforcement nationally. The plaintiffs attorneys and these bikers will get a huge payday from this and the Waco PD will be under a consent decree faster than you can spit. For the sake of law enforcement across the country I really hope the WACO PD didn't jump the jun here and cause a mass killing because this would be a national disgrace.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 10:09 pm to ihometiger
The cops saw guns, then opened fire. Don't assume the narrative won't vindicate the police.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 10:13 pm to ihometiger
quote:
If the facts start coming out that validate the assertions that website has found then the public will go nuts against law enforcement nationally. The plaintiffs attorneys and these bikers will get a huge payday from this and the Waco PD will be under a consent decree faster than you can spit. For the sake of law enforcement across the country I really hope the WACO PD didn't jump the jun here and cause a mass killing because this would be a national disgrace.
Well like I've said before, there's a few things about this whole story that makes no sense to this old biker.
1. Bikers, especially MC members, do not under any circumstances get into huge brawls in public places where there are "civilians" present. Soon as anything looked like it was going to start, the presidents of the clubs would shut it down.
2. Nobody, would go into a place where they know they're both being observed and surrounded by heavily armed police, and then break out into a big fight, especially with guns. And they damn sure would not start shooting at this force that totally outguns them in every way. Bikers are crazy, but they're not stupid.
3. Where's the collateral damage? If there really were close to two hundred "heavily armed" bikers wildly having a "mad minute" in the parking lot, there would be all sort of damage and all sorts of dead and wounded cops and civilians. Yet somehow not a single cop or civilian was hit. Only bikers, to the tune of 9 dead and dozens more shot.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 10:21 pm to Darth_Vader
I'm willing to guess that a trigger happy cop jumped the gun when/if the fight poured outside, and that set off a chain reaction throughout the rest of the police.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 10:25 pm to Old Sarge
quote:
The cops saw guns, then opened fire. Don't assume the narrative won't vindicate the police.
Another thing that does not add up. There's 9 dead, dozoens more injured and almost 200 arrested. OK, but here's a tally of the weapons the cops confiscated....
quote:LINK
About 50 weapons were recovered at the shooting scene including guns, knives and a chain with a padlock that could be used to beat someone, police said Monday.
How the hell did we get almost 200 people arrested, their bikes impounded, and a million dollar bond on each of them. I'm not mathematician but it looks to me that even if you factor in those killed & wounded (I'm guessing all of them were armed), then that means the overwhelming majority of the bikers in jail right now were totally unarmed during this fight. Now you tell me, what uunarmed person, even if they're the craziest biker you've ever met, will attack someone that's armed? Especially when most of them are armed with M4's.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 10:27 pm to Darth_Vader
Sidebar
Darth, let me also join in the chorus of the positive affirmation society.
I sincerely appreciate you posting your point of view and specific knowledge and especially your attitude in sharing it.
Darth, let me also join in the chorus of the positive affirmation society.
I sincerely appreciate you posting your point of view and specific knowledge and especially your attitude in sharing it.
This post was edited on 5/19/15 at 10:28 pm
Posted on 5/19/15 at 10:28 pm to BayouBengals18
Looks to me that police infiltrated the get together and may have had a part in instigating a scuffle. Police and SWAT were set up nicely to "control the situation and eliminate any threats".
Accurate ballistic tests would help, but I suppose any info leaked will be under strict police control.
False flags are a great way to control the masses. We are very good at it here in the USA.
Accurate ballistic tests would help, but I suppose any info leaked will be under strict police control.
False flags are a great way to control the masses. We are very good at it here in the USA.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 10:28 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
1. Bikers, especially MC members, do not under any circumstances get into huge brawls in public places where there are "civilians" present.
Well they did.
quote:
2. Nobody, would go into a place where they know they're both being observed and surrounded by heavily armed police, and then break out into a big fight, especially with guns. And they damn sure would not start shooting at this force that totally outguns them in every way. Bikers are crazy, but they're not stupid.
Again, they did.
quote:
3. Where's the collateral damage? If there really were close to two hundred "heavily armed" bikers wildly having a "mad minute" in the parking lot, there would be all sort of damage and all sorts of dead and wounded cops and civilians. Yet somehow not a single cop or civilian was hit. Only bikers, to the tune of 9 dead and dozens more shot
You don't know what got shot. I'd speculate there are some holes in bikes.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 10:41 pm to Rebelgator
quote:
Rebelgator
I know you're a Fed and thus blindly trust whatever the official party line tells you to believe. But if you're honest, and you know even half of what you profess to know about the MC world, you know as well as I do that there is a whole lot about the story we're being told that just does not make any sense.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 10:48 pm to ihometiger
quote:
If the facts start coming out that validate the assertions that website has found then the public will go nuts against law enforcement nationally. The plaintiffs attorneys and these bikers will get a huge payday from this and the Waco PD will be under a consent decree faster than you can spit. For the sake of law enforcement across the country I really hope the WACO PD didn't jump the jun here and cause a mass killing because this would be a national disgrace.
What did I miss in it? Serious question. Half of the points raised in it are irrelevant. It doesn't matter who shot first. It doesn't matter that only bikers were shot and no cops. It doesn't matter that no biker killed no other biker. It doesn't matter if it started inside or outside. It doesn't matter if the cops were waiting outside for potential trouble.
The only thing that would matter if there were no laws broken at any time, the bikers obeyed any and all LE commands and the bikers had no weapons on them that might create a threat. Short of that, LE did nothing wrong other than being prepared for problems that did, in fact, come to be.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 10:48 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
you know as well as I do that there is a whole lot about the story we're being told that just does not make any sense.
Sometimes things just don't make sense.
You give bikers too much credit and sanity. I don't.
I don't doubt for a second some dumbasses pulled weapons. I don't doubt that the Texan cops went cowboy and started dropping them till they stopped the shenanigans.
BTW, all your buddies are being held thanks to my buddy Rico.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 10:53 pm to BayouBengals18
quote:
I'm willing to guess that a trigger happy cop jumped the gun when/if the fight poured outside, and that set off a chain reaction throughout the rest of the police.
That's what I'm starting to lean towards.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 11:05 pm to reedus23
quote:
What did I miss in it? Serious question. Half of the points raised in it are irrelevant. It doesn't matter who shot first. It doesn't matter that only bikers were shot and no cops. It doesn't matter that no biker killed no other biker. It doesn't matter if it started inside or outside. It doesn't matter if the cops were waiting outside for potential trouble.
The only thing that would matter if there were no laws broken at any time, the bikers obeyed any and all LE commands and the bikers had no weapons on them that might create a threat. Short of that, LE did nothing wrong other than being prepared for problems that did, in fact, come to be.
Do the math.
*9 dead (I'm guessing all were armed and thus died as a result)
*18 other's wounded (guessing they had to be armed as well?)
So that's a total of 27 people we can assume were armed in some sort of fashion. Why is the number 27 important? Here's why...
quote:
About 50 weapons were recovered at the shooting scene including guns, knives and a chain with a padlock that could be used to beat someone, police said Monday.
So assuming everyone killed or wounded was armed, that means there were about roughly 24-25 other's there armed with everything from pistols, knives, to whatever.
But the cops arrested like 170 people. If you do the math, that means they've got a little under 150 people arrested as a result of this so-called shootout who were not even armed. Now if there really was a bi gun fight going on and you don;t have a gun, are you looking to fight or looking to find a place to take cover?
So why are all those guys sitting in jail and what the hell could they have done to warrant a million dollar bail?
And on top of that, why did the cops arrest guys just riding up on the scene AFTER the whole thing was over? Because they might intend to commit a crime? Last time I checked you can't be arrested for something you've not even done yet.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 11:19 pm to Darth_Vader
They don't each have to be armed. LE just has to have a reasonable belief that they were armed. Given what I would assume is not disputed (some of the bikers were armed, many of the bikers were fighting or otherwise violent) I'm just not seeing anything that LE did wrong. And I'm one that has questioned LE on more than one occasion.
As for being arrested, they don't have to have been armed. They only had to have been there and participating in some way. In fact, just being there might be enough to call it participation. I suspect the million dollar bonds will be reduced at some point. At least for some, if not even a vast majority. It's not unusual for an initial judge to set a higher than normal bond right away until there's a chance to hold a hearing on what the bond should be.
As for guys riding up just afterwards, I suspect they'll be released or their bonds reduced significantly. I'm not going to claim to be an expert on Texas law but I suspect that they were arrested on some sort of conspiracy or accomplice or rico type of statutes where it doesn't matter what role you had, if you had any role, you can be charged the same as anyone else.
Without looking it up, unless there laws are different, each and every one of those 170 can probably be charged under some sort of felony murder law. If there was a felony being committed (I would assume most would agree some felonies were being committed) and someone dies during the commission of those felonies (people did die), then anyone who had any role in the commission of that felony can be charged with felony murder, even if the people died as a result of the actions of LE and even if it was one of the felons who was the one who died as opposed to an innocent bystander.
I am sure it is that kind of stuff they are trying to sort out at this point.
As for being arrested, they don't have to have been armed. They only had to have been there and participating in some way. In fact, just being there might be enough to call it participation. I suspect the million dollar bonds will be reduced at some point. At least for some, if not even a vast majority. It's not unusual for an initial judge to set a higher than normal bond right away until there's a chance to hold a hearing on what the bond should be.
As for guys riding up just afterwards, I suspect they'll be released or their bonds reduced significantly. I'm not going to claim to be an expert on Texas law but I suspect that they were arrested on some sort of conspiracy or accomplice or rico type of statutes where it doesn't matter what role you had, if you had any role, you can be charged the same as anyone else.
Without looking it up, unless there laws are different, each and every one of those 170 can probably be charged under some sort of felony murder law. If there was a felony being committed (I would assume most would agree some felonies were being committed) and someone dies during the commission of those felonies (people did die), then anyone who had any role in the commission of that felony can be charged with felony murder, even if the people died as a result of the actions of LE and even if it was one of the felons who was the one who died as opposed to an innocent bystander.
I am sure it is that kind of stuff they are trying to sort out at this point.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 11:20 pm to Rebelgator
quote:
Sometimes things just don't make sense.
9 dead, 18 wounded, 170 arrested but only 50 weapons recovered, most not even guns. An explanation of "Sometimes things just don't make sense", is just weak bullshite.
quote:
ou give bikers too much credit and sanity. I don't.
And you give cops too much credit and sanity. I don't.
quote:
I don't doubt for a second some dumbasses pulled weapons. I don't doubt that the Texan cops went cowboy and started dropping them till they stopped the shenanigans.
Shoot 'em all & let God sort 'em out, right? 'Merica!
quote:
BTW, all your buddies are being held thanks to my buddy bullshite.
FIFY
This post was edited on 5/19/15 at 11:22 pm
Posted on 5/19/15 at 11:29 pm to Darth_Vader
Are you one of those big conspiracy people. Do you think sandy hook was staged and Jews rule the world?
This post was edited on 5/19/15 at 11:30 pm
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