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Started By
Message
Are private military soldiers better than U.S regulars?
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:06 pm
Just wondering, they like to portray it as such in T.V shows but is it really true?
7
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:10 pm to Duzz
Most of them are ex-military, they just operate under a different set of rules.
This post was edited on 4/28/16 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:10 pm to Duzz
quote:
Just wondering, they like to portray it as such in T.V shows but is it really true?
They're usually ex military and there are a lot of ex-SF guys so it's entirely possible.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:12 pm to Duzz
99.999% of them have their training and experience courtesy of the US or some other western military, so no, they're not better. And you rarely if ever see them doing anything but convoy, bodyguard, or security duty. They don't go out on offensive patrols in hostile territory, for instance. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
To the extent some of these guys are ex-SF operators and the like, they can be pretty good, although without continued training, skills degrade over time. And by and large the private outfits don't have much in the way of logistics, fire support, air support, etc-certainly nowhere near that of a first-world military.
To the extent some of these guys are ex-SF operators and the like, they can be pretty good, although without continued training, skills degrade over time. And by and large the private outfits don't have much in the way of logistics, fire support, air support, etc-certainly nowhere near that of a first-world military.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:15 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
And you rarely if ever see them doing anything but convoy, bodyguard, or security duty.
Which is some of the toughest work around. You're in the wild west taking care of someone/something that everyone wants to kill/take/destroy.
I would imagine these guys train a good deal as well.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:17 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
They don't go out on offensive patrols in hostile territory, for instance. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
You should read Civilian Warriors. It was written by the guy who founded Black Water so it's obviously very biased (he says as much in the beginning after not being allowed to talk under gov't contracts for so long). Most of the stuff would be like that but at the end he mentions he isn't allowed to talk about some of the cooperation they did with the CIA, but that they were pretty well-integrated into some of the stuff they did in Afghanistan.
Extremely vague as you might expect, but still.
He also mentioned them going on rescue missions if called upon.
This post was edited on 4/28/16 at 3:19 pm
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:17 pm to upgrayedd
I'm not saying it's easy, but given the choice of protecting some VIP or crossing 400 meters of open ground under machine gun fire, I'll take the VIP duty.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:20 pm to Jim Rockford
I can understand that. I've never been in that situation so I don't know what I'd do. But they were protected with guarding State Department personnel. And the State Department was determined to ride around in giant black SUVs instead of trying to be more discreet. As you can imagine how easy of a target that made them.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:20 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
but given the choice of protecting some VIP or crossing 400 meters of open ground under machine gun fire, I'll take the VIP duty.
This happens to contractors as well. They don't operate in a vaccuum. They face almost the same dangers as any other infantry unit.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:20 pm to Duzz
How do the private military people get the same weapons that US soldiers have? Always wondered that.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:22 pm to idlewatcher
quote:
How do the private military people get the same weapons that US soldiers have? Always wondered that.
They're not that hard to get provided you have the proper clearance from the govt. Granted, they're not rolling around in M1 Abrams tanks.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:24 pm to idlewatcher
They buy them from the manufacturer just like anyone else.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:31 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Granted, they're not rolling around in M1 Abrams tanks.
That was mainly my point. They are limited in what they can do without all the support a traditional military has.
And clearly, a guy with 12 years SOF experience who gets out and signs on with a a contracting outfit is going to have a better skill set than a 19 year old who's 6 months out of basic. You have to compare apples to apples. The private guy got virtually all his training and experience courtesy of Uncle Sam, so it's not like the private firms have created some breed of corporate supersoldiers. They've just hired what was already out there.
Another thing that was happening a couple of years ago, was that American/Western European contractors being pushed out by Asians, Eastern Europeans, etc, willing to work for less--and most likely do not have the training and experience of the guys they replaced. Where have we seen that before? I haven't been following it too closely lately, so don't know if the trend has continued.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:34 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
That was mainly my point. They are limited in what they can do without all the support a traditional military has.
And clearly, a guy with 12 years SOF experience who gets out and signs on with a a contracting outfit is going to have a better skill set than a 19 year old who's 6 months out of basic. You have to compare apples to apples. The private guy got virtually all his training and experience courtesy of Uncle Sam, so it's not like the private firms have created some breed of corporate supersoldiers. They've just hired what was already out there.
Well now you're talking about capabilities, not quality of soldiers. That's a whole different discussion.
quote:
Another thing that was happening a couple of years ago, was that American/Western European contractors being pushed out by Asians, Eastern Europeans, etc, willing to work for less--and most likely do not have the training and experience of the guys they replaced. Where have we seen that before? I haven't been following it too closely lately, so don't know if the trend has continued.
Didn't hear about that.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:38 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
They're not that hard to get provided you have the proper clearance from the govt. Granted, they're not rolling around in M1 Abrams tanks.
A sight to be seen I'm sure. Are the military rifles the same as store bought with mods? I know anyone with a mill and a lathe can convert a semi auto AR to auto, but was just curious. All the Blackwater guys had some bad arse weaponry.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:42 pm to idlewatcher
quote:
Are the military rifles the same as store bought with mods?
M4 (AR-15) variants, yes.
The light, med, and heavy machine guns would be bought from the same manufacturers that are contracted to the govt, I imagine.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:43 pm to idlewatcher
quote:
Are the military rifles the same as store bought with mods?
If they are mil spec I would say they are, but when it comes to accessories and the experimental weapons probably not.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:46 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Another thing that was happening a couple of years ago, was that American/Western European contractors being pushed out by Asians, Eastern Europeans, etc, willing to work for less--and most likely do not have the training and experience of the guys they replaced. Where have we seen that before? I haven't been following it too closely lately, so don't know if the trend has continued.
Are you sure you didn't get that from Grosse Pointe Blank?
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:46 pm to idlewatcher
If you spend the money you can get the exact same rifles they use legally. You can get anything from rocket launchers to grenades to any automatic rifle you want illegally. Its not hard. It just costs alot of money.
Posted on 4/28/16 at 3:58 pm to Walking the Earth
quote:
Are you sure you didn't get that from Grosse Pointe Blank?
Poe's Law: when satire becomes indistinguishable from reality...
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