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re: Air to Air combat
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:15 am to gizmothepug
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:15 am to gizmothepug
North Korea appears to be about the size of Kentucky. Probably wouldn't take too many tomahawks to eliminate their ability to get off the ground
0
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:15 am to Darth_Vader
Avionics weren't as advanced then. Now, like the other guy posted, we'll blow someone out of the sky before they even know that we're there.
I had a German pilot tell me that exact thing a year or so ago.
I had asked him about the Eurofighter and he said that while it would destroy the F-22 or F-35 in a true dogfight, he would never get that far before he was blown out of the sky.
I had a German pilot tell me that exact thing a year or so ago.
I had asked him about the Eurofighter and he said that while it would destroy the F-22 or F-35 in a true dogfight, he would never get that far before he was blown out of the sky.
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:20 am to cubsfan5150
quote:
Avionics weren't as advanced then. Now, like the other guy posted, we'll blow someone out of the sky before they even know that we're there.
I had a German pilot tell me that exact thing a year or so ago.
I had asked him about the Eurofighter and he said that while it would destroy the F-22 or F-35 in a true dogfight, he would never get that far before he was blown out of the sky.
It's great what we can do. And yes technology has advanced. But just as missile and radar advance, so does countermeasures. Missiles and and do miss. Once that fighter fires off all his missiles, he's helpless. And then what happens?
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:22 am to Tyga Woods
The Defense Department regrets to inform you that your sons are dead because they were stupid. Great Balls of Fire.
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:23 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
. Once that fighter fires off all his missiles, he's helpless. And then what happens
Cousin Eddie sacrifices his life for humanity and flies the jet up the anal cavity of the alien spaceship
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:28 am to Tyga Woods
Well it's foolish to think that simply because missile and radar tech has advanced since the 1960s to not also realize countermeasures against missiles and radar have and will continue to advance as well.
Thus it's fricking stupid to build an air superiority fighter aircraft that can't dog fight. Sure, it might not have to dog fight but there is no guarantee it won't. We learned that lesson the hard way in Vietnam. Look at it this way, which would you want our Air Force to have in a war?
A. A fighter capable of dog fighting that never has to dog fight.
Or
B. A fighter that can't dog fight that finds itself in a dog fight.
Thus it's fricking stupid to build an air superiority fighter aircraft that can't dog fight. Sure, it might not have to dog fight but there is no guarantee it won't. We learned that lesson the hard way in Vietnam. Look at it this way, which would you want our Air Force to have in a war?
A. A fighter capable of dog fighting that never has to dog fight.
Or
B. A fighter that can't dog fight that finds itself in a dog fight.
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:32 am to Darth_Vader
Avionics are defensive too ya know... And yet again, we are ridiculously advanced
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:32 am to Darth_Vader
Couldn't an F16 be retrofitted with new tech and still be as capable as anything else in the world?
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:34 am to Tyga Woods
It is, as is the F-15 and F-18 still very capable.
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:35 am to Tyga Woods
quote:
Couldn't an F16 be retrofitted with new tech and still be as capable as anything else in the world?
quote:
There are not enough Raptors and they don’t carry enough missiles. For example, it’s fairly routine for four Raptors to take on more than twenty Red aircraft during training exercises. Moreover, those Raptors help fourth-generation fighters like the F-15 to engage their targets—but the frequent complaint from both Raptor along with F-15 and F-16 pilots is that they run out of missiles very, very quickly. That’s especially true with the advent of digital radio frequency memory jamming that wrecks havoc on the AIM-120 and even the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars found on America’s best fighters
LINK
This post was edited on 4/14/17 at 10:37 am
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:38 am to Tyga Woods
Probably so. The F16 is a very capable air to air fighter, but I think its strictly short range and not really an air superiority fighter.
Im not sure that the 18 is really a long range air superiority fighter either as much as a multi role fighter. I think the F15 fighter variants and F22 are all we have active that are real pure bred air to air planes.
Im not sure that the 18 is really a long range air superiority fighter either as much as a multi role fighter. I think the F15 fighter variants and F22 are all we have active that are real pure bred air to air planes.
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:39 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
quote:
There are not enough Raptors and they don’t carry enough missiles. For example, it’s fairly routine for four Raptors to take on more than twenty Red aircraft during training exercises. Moreover, those Raptors help fourth-generation fighters like the F-15 to engage their targets—but the frequent complaint from both Raptor along with F-15 and F-16 pilots is that they run out of missiles very, very quickly. That’s especially true with the advent of digital radio frequency memory jamming that wrecks havoc on the AIM-120 and even the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars found on America’s best fighters
LINK
So what would be a good solution for the lack of firepower? More planes? A new plane with larger capacity? Cross our fingers and hope it never comes to that point?
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:41 am to Tyga Woods
I've also read that we are really close to a laser-type weapon that would eliminate the need to carry as many rockets/missiles. Not sure how true that is though.
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:43 am to Tyga Woods
That's kind of what needs to happen next but I'm not sure how the hell you'd power it on a small fighter plane. It takes a bunch of electricity to make something like that work. It'd also be purely line of sight, so I don't think regular ol guided explosives are going anywhere.
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:45 am to Tyga Woods
quote:
So what would be a good solution for the lack of firepower? More planes? A new plane with larger capacity? Cross our fingers and hope it never comes to that point?
Fighter aircraft tech is, like all weapons systems from the rifle to the tank, always evolving. Someone will introduce something new like a really powerful radar, then someone comes out with a way to jam that radar. Then someowe will figure out how to get around that jamming, and so forth and so on. It's a never ending back and forth of which side has the advantage. For a while it will look like radar and missile tech has the advantage. Then next thing you know, what was the latest is now obsolete less than a decade after being introduced.
That's why having a fighter capable of manuvering into range to knock an enemy aircraft from the sky with cannon fire is something we'd be stupid to think we will ever be past needing. Any and all electronics can be countered with other electronic devices. But there is nothing that will stop a 20mm shell once it is on the way.
This post was edited on 4/14/17 at 10:47 am
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:46 am to Tyga Woods
quote:
I'm sure our DOD knows, but does the OT know anything about North Koreas air to air capability, or do all their hopes and dreams lie with a not-so-intercontinental ballistic missile?
N. Korea would last hours in a war. They are a starving, deprived people with rusting military hardware.
This post was edited on 4/14/17 at 10:59 am
Posted on 4/14/17 at 10:56 am to Darth_Vader
Shack
Posted on 4/14/17 at 11:06 am to Drew Orleans
Anyone else reading this whole thread with Danger Zone playing in their head?
Posted on 4/14/17 at 11:11 am to BIGFOOD
quote:
read somewhere the F22 can pick out and eliminate a target before it knew the F22 was in the area.
There was an article about an F-22 sent to intercept an Iranian F-4 encroaching on protected airspace. The Raptor pilot snuck up below him, and literally popped the plane up right next to the Phantom before he knew he was there.
You're cruising along, checking your radar and listening to chatter from your ground controllers, and you look out the window and there's a Raptor pilot giving you the bird.
Posted on 4/14/17 at 11:13 am to Tyga Woods
quote:
I never really hear anything about "Top Gun"-type fighting, even during our recent conflicts in the Middle East. Is that fighting style obsolete?
Not fully - it's just usually over quickly. For lack of a better term - the "Israeli" model is used post-Vietnam, which itself is built on Allied air supremacy tactics from WWII.
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