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re: Air Force RC-135 intercepted by two Chinese Fighter Jets
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:11 am to geauxnavybeatbama
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:11 am to geauxnavybeatbama
quote:
You and I understand that, but China doesn't give a shite
That isn't the point. The point is that the country isn't throwing anybody under the bus. The news media are just reporting facts, which is what they are supposed (and occasionally manage) to do.
1
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:13 am to geauxnavybeatbama
Who told the media about this?
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:15 am to Darth_Vader
I would like to see someone board it first
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:16 am to terd ferguson
quote:
The plane in question was in international airspace.
True. and to be clear, I'm not saying the Chinese were right in intercepting our aircraft. In fact, frick China. I don't like or trust them any more than I like the damn Russians.
All I'm saying is it would be useless to try and make out like this is not a "spy plane".
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:17 am to MountainTiger
quote:
The news media are just reporting facts
They use words to grab attention and create headlines. The act of spying implies doing something in secret. I'm sure it was no secret to anyone that this plane was flying around in international airspace.
Contrary to what Darth says, this plane isn't some stealth aircraft sneaking across borders and gathering info. It's basically an offshoot of a Boeing commercial airliner. It operates in plain sight.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:20 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
All I'm saying is it would be useless to try and make out like this is not a "spy plane".
And I would disagree with you. A U-2 or an SR-71 is a spy plane. This is an information gathering aircraft. It's not meant to be stealthy or undetected.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:28 am to geauxnavybeatbama
Just on a related note, a Soviet effort to splash a KC-135 resulted in the loss of KAL007, IMHO, although conspiracy theories abound about that particular incident.
The USAF has to know these are the most risky missions we fly, currently.
The USAF has to know these are the most risky missions we fly, currently.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:29 am to terd ferguson
quote:
This is an information gathering aircraft. It's not meant to be stealthy or undetected.
The white hats always say this. Their guys looking at us are spies. Our guys looking at them are doing reconnaissance. (I was in this business, a lifetime ago, at a very low level, BTW.)
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:37 am to terd ferguson
quote:
Contrary to what Darth says, this plane isn't some stealth aircraft sneaking across borders and gathering info.
Where did I ever say that the RC-135 was stealthy or could sneak anywhere?
quote:
It's basically an offshoot of a Boeing commercial airliner. It operates in plain sight.
Exactly, and it's operations involve it flying just outside a country's airspace in international airspace where it gathers intelligence on that country. In other words, it spies on that country.
You do realize there's different methods of intelligence gathering (i.e. spying) right? Some of it does involve clandestine operations and sneaking around. But most of it is just what this plane does, namely fly out in the open in international airspace gathering intel.
This post was edited on 6/8/16 at 11:41 am
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:42 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
They were in international airspace that China claims as its own, but the rest of the world recognizes as international. China is basically claiming the whole East China and South China seas, which is a potential flashpoint in the maybe-not-so-distant-future.
What interest me is the fact that China is claiming this and we say " frick it, were gonna fly a recon plane right in there and just hope they just make it leave and don't do something worse.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:42 am to geauxnavybeatbama
So we've got the Russians doing barrel rolls over our ships and the Chinese intercepting our planes. Everyone is making us their bitch 
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:47 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
In other words, it spies on that country.
Spying is SECRETLY collecting information about another country. There is absolutely zero element of secrecy involved here.
Why you spy on someone you don't stand out in the open and say "Hey! Here I am spying on you!"
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:48 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
fly out in the open in international airspace gathering intel.
NOT spying
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:51 am to terd ferguson
They cloud checked our arse
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:53 am to FelicianaTigerfan
quote:
What interest me is the fact that China is claiming this and we say " frick it, were gonna fly a recon plane right in there and just hope they just make it leave and don't do something worse.
It's called Freedom of Navigation, and we fought our first war as an independent nation over it, with the Barbary Pirates. It's a core concept of international law. China is claiming a huge swath of international air and sea space, as far east as the mouth of Manila Bay. Allowing them to get away with it would allow them to control access to the ports of nearly all its neighbors, including Japan, Korea, Vietnam, and the Phillipines, giving them de facto control of those countries' economies, and by extension, their foreign and domestic policies. It would also allow them to control who does and does not get to use what is arguably the world's most important trade route, with all the consequences implied by that. This is why we're flying planes and sailing ships through that area to prove a point. Because it's a point worth making, and ultimately, worth fighting over.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 11:58 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
The white hats always say this. Their guys looking at us are spies. Our guys looking at them are doing reconnaissance. (I was in this business, a lifetime ago, at a very low level, BTW.)
My BIL flew EP-3's with the Navy, which is basically the same mission using a different airframe. He carried a card with the offer in several languages of $20k in gold for his safe return. They usually had NSA guys riding in the back. Still, it's not cloak and dagger stuff. Everybody knows who they are, and they go out and fly a racetrack pattern over the same patch of ocean every day.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 12:05 pm to terd ferguson
quote:
Spying is SECRETLY collecting information about another country. There is absolutely zero element of secrecy involved here.
Why you spy on someone you don't stand out in the open and say "Hey! Here I am spying on you!"
Spying is the act of garhering intelligence that a foreign country does not want you to have otherwise. There are different forms of spying, but they're all still the same thing. What the RC-135 does is in fact a form of spying.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 12:05 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
He carried a card with the offer in several languages of $20k in gold for his safe return.
Blood chit. It's a controlled item for obvious reasons.
quote:
Still, it's not cloak and dagger stuff.
We would call other nations' forces that did that "spies." It is what it is.
So, if a person is not engaging in direct action or covert behind the lines missions, they're not "spying" on the enemy?
One man's recon is another man's spying. That's all I'm saying. But, like a lot of things, this is probably something I just don't know anything about.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 12:06 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
t's called Freedom of Navigation, and we fought our first war as an independent nation over it, with the Barbary Pirates. It's a core concept of international law. China is claiming a huge swath of international air and sea space, as far east as the mouth of Manila Bay. Allowing them to get away with it would allow them to control access to the ports of nearly all its neighbors, including Japan, Korea, Vietnam, and the Phillipines, giving them de facto control of those countries' economies, and by extension, their foreign and domestic policies. It would also allow them to control who does and does not get to use what is arguably the world's most important trade route, with all the consequences implied by that. This is why we're flying planes and sailing ships through that area to prove a point. Because it's a point worth making, and ultimately, worth fighting over.
Very true.
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