re: About to put my son in drug rehab. update page 20

Anybody say "Palmetto" yet? Up near Monroe out in frickn boondocks.

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OP,please don't let your son get on Suboxone.

It's very strong and may be harder to get off than the drugs he's currently taking.

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Yeah, no. Under the supervision of an addiction doctor (an actual MD), it's quite safe and works.

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inmo,it's trading one addiction for another.

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Again, no. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence.

Is this thread still about the OP, or has it devolved into "an atheists chance at completing 12 step programs"?

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it still messes with brain chemistry, making it very difficult to treat underlying issues

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No doubt, but that's why you also meet with a therapist (addiction counselor) while under the medical direction of an MD. It's a good combo that treats both the physical addiction and underlying mental health issues.

Better have deep pockets for palmetto.

Good luck, it's great you son is getting help. But make sure you and any other love ones get help also. Drug addiction makes the entire family sick.

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The only thing you have to deal with shitty cash hungry doctors that take cash only and want the patient to stay on the medication for long time frames to milk money.

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I’ve heard when used responsibly over a very short period of time, suboxen works great for pain pills, heroin, etc.. addiction. From my understanding, it is not methadone and isnt a drug that gets a person high. Its only purpose is to stop withdrawels that are a major reason people are afraid to quit

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Look, I don't mean to be rude, but it doesn't particularly sound like you know what you're talking about. Suboxone most definitely does have a high associated with it. It's less intense and longer acting than heroin, most pills, and methadone. It's also designed for safe, effective long-term use. The using it for short term to battle withdrawals is great, but the majority of long-time opioid abusers aren't ready to quit in two weeks' time. Thus, things like methadone and suboxone exist. The anecdotal average time it takes someone to taper down and quit without relapsing is 12-18 months. They're followed by a doctor every step of the way. Many of these doctors take cash because a very large portion of their clientele don't have insurance. And dealing with insurance companies for reimbursement is a pain to begin with. So what do they do? Cut out the middle man, leading to the doctor being able to spend more of their time with the patients trying to aid them through a very, very difficult process.


Sure, there are some shitheads out there, but as a whole, I've never seen a group who actually cared so much about their patients as the addiction psych guys I've worked with. I think they like their patients more than the neonatologists, even.

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inmo,it's trading one addiction for another.

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Yes and no. You have to go to a doctor to get it. The doctor isn't going to write the script and kick you out. There's counseling involved. It's a stepwise fashion of replacing what's dangerous (being something you're likely breaking the law to get otherwise. The concept of "harm reduction" is huge here) and replacing it with something that comes along with a licensed physician supporting you and listening to your troubles as to why you can't quit.

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know people that have been taking Suboxone everyday for 5 years.Going every month to get their script from "Cash Only" Doctors.

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Do your friends like the suboxone, or do they want to quit? The doctor always should recommend it as a step to sobriety. If that's not the case, they should ask to be referred to another physician. Sometimes, suboxone is a replacement abuse as opposed to a step to sobriety. The fault is on the patient, there, almost every time. Your scenario may be an exception, but I am willing to bet that the people on the suboxone are on it this long because they're just not ready to kick the habit.

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they quit taking the Suboxone their Withdrawels would be hell.

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When they are ready to quit, they should discuss it with the physician they see monthly. Tapering suboxone is easy and can be done, depending on the dose, in anywhere between about 3-14 days without very much withdrawal at all. It's formulaic and simple.

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And you do get high.It contains Naloxine which stops any other Opiates you take from working.

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Yes to the first statement. No, no, and absolutely not to the second. Naloxone by mouth is essentially worthless. It gets absorbed and broken down so rapidly that it has practically zero effect. If it did have an effect, the suboxone also would not work. The reason it is there is that when you inject naloxone into your veins, it's very active and blocks all opiates, including buprenorphine. It is in the pill so that if you were to try and crush it and inject it, it would have very little to no "high" at all. However, there is a high from swallowing it. It's a harm reduction measure to discourage IV use of this particular pill, because a very large number of people taking it are IV users who would be otherwise tempted to turn back to that very risky route.

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But,the active ingrediate,Buprenorphine,is used by itself for Pain Control.So it does get you high.Just not the same as Oxy and Tabs and such.

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Yes. Buprenorphine is a partial antagonist of central opioid receptors. It's a toned-down version of true opioids. Partial agonists and full agonists can have very different effects (for example: THC is a partial agonist of the same receptor as synthetic pot molecules, but the effects are so different that it's practically unfair to call them the same 'class' of drug, non-pharmacologically), but this one seems to be a pretty good "less intense version" of the regular ligand.

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imho,it's not something a kid,young man,should be taking.It's like a last resort option.jmho

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Your concerns are valid and your input is very much appreciated.

OP, in my professional opinion, if your son is dealing with an opiate addiction, suboxone administered under a suboxone -icensed physician who understands that he is struggling with addiction and wants to quit but is struggling or not ready to quit, suboxone is a fantastic alternative to essentially whatever opiate he was previously on because he will never lose his supply, the negative legal consequences will be much less to none, he will be very unlikely to turn to the IV route, and he will have to meet monthly with someone who will be a positive influence on his quitting.



I'm only at the very beginning of this thread, so it's possible the OP has responded and the boy isn't on opiates, but there is some absolutely terribly unfactual information about opiate addiction and suboxone administration thus far, so I felt compelled to address these two posts.

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these rehab places are profit centers, very cult like, they almost subliminally convince the patient that they are destined to relapse(repeat business,) and they will will struggle and white knuckle it for the rest of their days and never truly be happy or "cured"

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Not sure if OP is still around, but the following is in Spanish Fort and is 100% legit and a winner. They are kinda a last resort with some people there to avoid jail, but the place gets the job done. They are selective with who they let in, men only, and run a tight ship. There is a minimum stay there, you are expected to get or have a job where you go to work each day and check in each night. People have the freedom to frick up if they want, but the residents seem to bond and support each other, almost military style like as a unit.

Anyway, great place, non-profit, not about the money, highly structured.

LINK

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these rehab places are profit centers, very cult like, they almost subliminally convince the patient that they are destined to relapse(repeat business,) and they will will struggle and white knuckle it for the rest of their days and never truly be happy or "cured"

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To be fair to these facilities, relapse is entirely on the patient's hands and they attempt to be up front and honest about that. It's not because they want repeat customers. There are far too few facilities as it is with a rather high demand. Regardless, the facility you choose of whether to attend a facility doesn't affect your long-term outcome or chance of relapse. Realizing that you have to make good choices and that poor choices have severe consequences associated with them is the ultimate determinate in choosing to quit, regardless of what form of substance abuse we are discussing. Some people realize this at a center, and that's great. Others don't, and it's a waste of time and money.

Drug use across the general population and professionals is roughly equal. Relapse rates in the general population are very high. Relapse among professionals, specifically lawyers and doctors who face losing their license, is down in the 1-4% range. My take on that is that it's very unfortunate, but some people just don't have enough at stake (like a 6-figure salary needed to pay off 7-figure debt) to stop using. It doesn't make them bad, lesser, or worse people. It makes them a victim of circumstance with individual responsibility that is very hard to influence from the outside.