re: 71 Years Ago Today: Last German Line on Seelow Heights Collapses

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Grafenwoher

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I remember doing my first tank table VIII there in 88.

The Germans were some damn good fighters. If hitter didn't have to micro manage everything and had trusted his generals to make decisions the war would have dragged on for many more years.

In the end Germany still would have been defeated because they were surrounded on all sides by the allies.

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The Germans were some damn good fighters. If hitter didn't have to micro manage everything and had trusted his generals to make decisions the war would have dragged on for many more years.

In the end Germany still would have been defeated because they were surrounded on all sides by the allies

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The Italians helped hasten Germany's defeat as well. From pushing back the Barbarossa weeks to save the Italians arse in Greece, to having to send an Panzer army to North Africa just to see it destroyed, again to try and save the Italians, to eventually having to occupy and then defend Italy because the Italians surrendered the moment allied troops landed. Italy really was a horrible "ally" for Germany. They did far more harm than good.,

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Seems like I remember reading or or hearing that the winter of 44 was the coldest in a century all across Europe.

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Bastogne was brutal. I remember it from Band of Brothers.

What the Japanese did to China was pretty bad.

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Here in the US we like to remember D-Day

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sadly it barely gets a mention these days. Every June 6th it's like a footnote at best. Sad how quick that generation is dying off right now. I remember the big hoopla when the last WW1 vet in NOLA died.
Won't be long until there are no more WW2 vets around.

I swear every time Darth starts one of these threads I want to go spend another day at the WW2 museum. I can't get enough of this subject. Lately I have been focusing on African campaigns because it seems to be the least talked about area. Funny how Italy was such a failure in Africa, they couldn't get Ethiopia in the 19th century and then made that the prize target of the fascist regime. I never got the appeal of Ethiopia other than it is coastal. Odd I think it's the only African nation never to be colonized, and Italy in attacking them basically proved how useless the League of Nations was three years before Hitler started getting really scary.

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Won't be long until there are no more WW2 vets around.

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You are right they are disappearing fast. OTOH an 18 year old in 1945 would be 89 now. Given continued advances in medicine, it's likely several of those guys will live another 20 years or more. A few WWII vets will outlive many posters on this board.

Italy did occupy Ethiopia for a while after bombing and gassing them into submission. The Emperor (yes, Ethiopia was an "empire") Halie Salliese (I probably butchered the spelling there) was forced into exile.


Of course the Italians didn't get to stay long. When Italy joined the war against Britian, they tried invading Sudan and Kenya which were under British control. The Brits promptly kicked their asses and not only stopped the invasion, they also drove them out of Ethiopia.

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They were doomed as soon as they invaded Belgium and France. People say the eastern front was the big mistake but that was Hitler's reason for the whole war, nay... his whole "religion"... Destroy and conquer the heathen slavs.

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Well, he really didn't want a war on his western flank. His goals from the start all laid eastwards, namely Poland and the European Russia. He calculated France and Britian would not go to war over Poland. He was dead wrong though. Thus, before he could realize his full vision in the east, he had to take care of matters in the West.

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By invading France he ignited Churchill's rise and in turn Roosevelt/America. The Germans would've won a one on one war with the USSR had they played their cards right with the west and kept Japan in check.

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Well, as I said, he had to take care of France. There's no way he could ever invade the Soviet Union when the world's largest and, according to all the "experts" of the time, best equipped and trained army in the world was sitting right in his western frontier. Remember, France and Britisn declared war on Germany. This forced Hitler's hand in the West.

But having said all that. Just as I've often wondered how WWI would have gone if Britian had stayed out. How would WWII turned out if Hitler never had to waste a year, not to mention thousands of planes lost and tens of thousands of casualties securing(or so he thought) his western flank? What if as soon as Poland fell he were able to start preparations for the invasion of the Soviet Union in the early fall of 39 and actually launched his invasion sometime around May 1940 with a Wehrmacht who's only losses were from the six week Polish Campaign? I think the Germans very well may have pulled it off and at the least forced a very favorable settled peace on the Soviets.

ETA: as always, Im loving a good history discussion. But it's late and I've got to crash. I'll check this thread in the morning and hopefully pick up where I left off.
everyone.

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Maybe Japan tries to take a piece of Siberia instead of striking south and west

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One last post of the night.

I doubt Japan would make such a move. For starters they had their hands full in China. And along with this, they'd already had a pretty big skirmish with the Soviets and it turned out horribly for the Japanese.

One very overlooked fact about Japan during WWII is they had an army trained and equipped for static trench warfare. Basically they built their army to refight WWI. This was fine against a primitive and ill equipped foe like China or fighting defensive battles on remote Pacific Islands against a largely infantry centered foe, or at least somewhat effective in the instance of the Pacific islands. But when their army was confronted with an enemy utilizing "modern" mechanized warfare like the Soviets used, the Japs were no match and suffered terrible defeats.