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Message
re: So what happens when Ivory returns?
Posted on 10/3/11 at 12:26 am to John McClane
Posted on 10/3/11 at 12:26 am to John McClane
The Heisman in professional football is a non-factor. Saints have had their share of Heisman winners, more have been mediocre -> bad than good.
Anyone remember Danny Wuerffel? *shudders*
Also, anyone notice that 4 out of the 5 Heisman draftees that the Saints have drafted in club history were RBs? Kind of interesting.
*edited for number correction*
Anyone remember Danny Wuerffel? *shudders*
Also, anyone notice that 4 out of the 5 Heisman draftees that the Saints have drafted in club history were RBs? Kind of interesting.
*edited for number correction*
This post was edited on 10/3/11 at 12:30 am
0
Posted on 10/3/11 at 1:13 am to John McClane
Just wanted to point out that player contracts in the NFL are very much statistically based. Carry on.
Posted on 10/3/11 at 1:22 am to John McClane
quote:
it's not comparable if you aren't playing the same teams. get it?
Posted on 10/3/11 at 1:35 am to Melvin
Holy frick this thread made my eyes bleed. I think I truly hate some of you.
Posted on 10/3/11 at 1:39 am to NawlinsTiger9
Between nih and jlsix this board has enough stupidity to ruin any good win.
Posted on 10/3/11 at 5:45 am to jdrumdog
quote:
when you use statistics, those statistics simply are not an accurate measure of either running backs' ability when compared to each other
Yes they are. And no one said anything about statistics in this thread until you did. They said Ivory looked better. As in, watching the games. If you watch the games Ivory broke more tackles and ran more violently than Ingram.
And since physics say matter can't occupy the place at the same time. Statistics ARE the most reliable way to compare two running backs. Or anything else similar DICK!!! Fight physics DOUCH!!!
Posted on 10/3/11 at 6:45 am to whodatnsport
So let's say ivory ran harder, better, faster than Ingram at a better ypc average. Ok, no big deal. Now, until he comes back from injury and does it not only in a few games but for the rest of the season without getting hurt, hes still an injury prone talent. It's a shame, but right now that's what it is. I will take a season long Ingram with a little less production (while steadily improving) who still moves the chains over a 5 -7 game ivory.
Posted on 10/3/11 at 8:08 am to Gugich22
I can't even be bothered with the last 3 pages of this shite.
How the hell is it not painfully obvious that the point JLSIX is trying to make is that using such a small sample size is a flawed argument. For example, Emmitt Smith, through his first 5 games had 60 carries for 225 yards. That's 3.75 YPC. His entire first season average was 3.89 YPC.
Small sample sizes are worthless, period.
How the hell is it not painfully obvious that the point JLSIX is trying to make is that using such a small sample size is a flawed argument. For example, Emmitt Smith, through his first 5 games had 60 carries for 225 yards. That's 3.75 YPC. His entire first season average was 3.89 YPC.
Small sample sizes are worthless, period.
Posted on 10/3/11 at 8:12 am to cuddlemonkey
has anyone brought up the point that ingram has been splitting carries with 2 other guys, while ivory was getting the bulk of the carries due to the top 2 running backs being injured?
Posted on 10/3/11 at 8:13 am to whodatnsport
quote:
If you watch the games Ivory broke more tackles and ran more violently than Ingram.
Which, unfortunately, does not bode well for a guy with his injury history.
Posted on 10/3/11 at 8:59 am to biglosdaddy
quote:
has anyone brought up the point that ingram has been splitting carries with 2 other guys, while ivory was getting the bulk of the carries due to the top 2 running backs being injured?
Don't cloud this thread up with facts.
Posted on 10/3/11 at 9:05 am to cuddlemonkey
quote:
How the hell is it not painfully obvious that the point JLSIX is trying to make is that using such a small sample size is a flawed argument.
we understand what he is saying, but then he comes out and says that the heisman is why Ingram is the better back.
It would be hard for any back to match what Ivory did last year as a rookie. It is obvious that Ivory last year > Ingram and every other one of our rb's this year.
Posted on 10/3/11 at 9:10 am to whodatfan
quote:
So let's say ivory ran harder, better, faster than Ingram at a better ypc average. Ok, no big deal. Now, until he comes back from injury and does it not only in a few games but for the rest of the season without getting hurt, hes still an injury prone talent. It's a shame, but right now that's what it is. I will take a season long Ingram with a little less production (while steadily improving) who still moves the chains over a 5 -7 game ivory.
This board is insufferable during and for a couple of days after
You are on the money. And Ingram is getting better and better with every game. He looks to be getting adjusted. I was impressed with his running yesterday. He hasn't broken any long ones yet, but that's not entirely his fault. He had a few nice 6,7, or 8 yard runs but when the opponent is getting penetration into the backfield as he's getting handed the ball, it's almost impossible to get any yardage. His vision will continue to improve and he will be a great NFL back.
quote:
It is obvious that Ivory last year > Ingram and every other one of our rb's this year.
Darren Sproles:
15 car 134 yards rushing 8.9 avg
19 rec 149 yards rec 7.8 avg
Pierre Thomas:
27 car 136 yards rushing 5.0 avg
07 rec 72 yards rec 10.2 avg
Sorry, but that statement is just false. Right now you'd have a case for Ivory vs Ingram.
This post was edited on 10/3/11 at 9:19 am
Posted on 10/3/11 at 9:12 am to TigerBait1127
just a reminder LINK
Posted on 10/3/11 at 9:13 am to Hulkklogan
Ivory will show Ingram how its done when he gets back. 
Posted on 10/3/11 at 9:14 am to cuddlemonkey
quote:
Small sample sizes are worthless, period.
I agree. But anyone with a pulse and who watched the team play last season and this season can see which RB looked better adjusting to the NFL...
I'm not saying Ivory is better than Ingram or vice versa. I'm not saying Ingram isn't going to have a better career than Ivory because I think he will (due to injuries & his long-term value). I'm strictly saying that Ivory looked better in his first season than Ingram has so far regardless of the sample size.
Posted on 10/3/11 at 9:14 am to 13SaintTiger
i'm on page 2 and already bored with the bitching...has anyone said when Ivory is anticipated back?
Posted on 10/3/11 at 9:15 am to LSUzealot
quote:
has anyone said when Ivory is anticipated back?
He will come when the lightning strike... the thunder will come rolling.
Posted on 10/3/11 at 9:40 am to Chad504boy
Regardless of the sample size or what year/teams he played in, Ivory looked better last year. Just look at the highlight link posted earlier.
This isn't to say Ingram looks bad. It's about how good Ivory looked last year.
This isn't to say Ingram looks bad. It's about how good Ivory looked last year.
Posted on 10/3/11 at 9:57 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
we understand what he is saying, but then he comes out and says that the heisman is why Ingram is the better back.
The Heisman was based off a larger body of work than what either of the two hav eproduced in the pros so far, and was won against much tougher competition then what Ivory faced in college. I believe that is the point he was trying to make. Ingram, in his Heisman campaign (as a true sophomore), carried his entire team for an month long stretch against some very tough defenses.
quote:
It would be hard for any back to match what Ivory did last year as a rookie. It is obvious that Ivory last year > Ingram and every other one of our rb's this year.
Ingram broke tackles in his Heisman season to the point where over 50% of his yardage came after first contact. He showed exceptional vision and balance as well as a great intial burst to hit holes and reach the second level. The balance and strength is a natural gift that translates well. The vision is something that seems to be improving at this level every week.
Obviously Ivory had better yardage through his first 4 games, but he was also kept out of the end zone and fumbled 3 times in that stretch. Those are negatives that must be looked at as well. What that does not change, however is the fact that Ivory is an incredible talent, a violent runner that seems to enjoy punishing would-be tacklers, and a tremendous aid to our grand game.
It also doesn't change the fact that he has durability issues and Ingram is poised to have a better career both because of natural ability (which they both have in spades) and his ability to withstand the rigors of an NFL season.
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