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re: SI's Banks hints at Ingram being a bust
Posted on 9/20/11 at 9:40 pm to LSUZombie
Posted on 9/20/11 at 9:40 pm to LSUZombie
quote:
SI's Banks hints at Ingram being a bust
While I think it is a bit too early and bordering on ridiculous for Banks to call him a bust, I am not overly impressed with what I have seen to date. As of right now I would rather have Thomas carrying the heavier load instead of the other way around. But maybe the coaches know something and we will see better results as the season progresses.
1
Posted on 9/20/11 at 10:55 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
When you have a timeshare at RB, it's difficult for one guy to go all Adrian Peterson, especially in a pass first offense like Sean Payton's.
well it begs the question of whether a 2nd now and a 1st next year led to good value, especially considering what you just posted
Posted on 9/20/11 at 10:57 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
Are there seriously people on this board that are so knee jerk reactionary, that they're saying the Saints wasted picks on Ingram?
for the record, i'm not saying this
but we paid a relatively high price for a cheap position, and he's not producing for that cheap position
Posted on 9/20/11 at 11:35 pm to SlowFlowPro
I thought he played well on Sunday. Half his carries are on downs that the defense knows he's carrying it, actually, probably more than that. I saw quick feet, good vision to bounce and I saw him literally run over a corner to get the first. Yes, he fumbled, but he'll learn from that. Kid will be fine and as the year goes on, he'll get much better. I think more blame should go to the line. Name a carry thus far that he had a hole. I think once in the GB game which was about an 8-10 yd carry.
Paying a 1 to move up for him, (which was the cost, can't count the 2nd rounder because he was essentially that pick), was definitely steep. But, we're in win now mode. I think draft picks can be overvalued sometimes. With good scouting and drafting to fit scheme, you should be able to find a player in all rounds. Hell, most first rounders are busts, esp later picks in the round!
Paying a 1 to move up for him, (which was the cost, can't count the 2nd rounder because he was essentially that pick), was definitely steep. But, we're in win now mode. I think draft picks can be overvalued sometimes. With good scouting and drafting to fit scheme, you should be able to find a player in all rounds. Hell, most first rounders are busts, esp later picks in the round!
Posted on 9/21/11 at 4:58 am to LSUZombie
To Banks:
Posted on 9/21/11 at 8:13 am to KindOfABigDeal
i do think that the staff has more blame on them than Ingram
Posted on 9/21/11 at 8:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
well it begs the question of whether a 2nd now and a 1st next year led to good value, especially considering what you just posted
You've been beating this drum for a while now.
Its a valid question, if this weren't week three and the Saints hadn't played two of the better run stopping D's in the league. The next 3-4 games will tell a different story for the RB position, IMO. They will run on Houston, Jax, Carolina, and Tampa. Well, lets go farther out...Indy, St. Louis, Tampa again, and Atlanta. Now, around Indy, Ivory should be getting back into the swing. I'm thinking the running game will be on point from here on out.
Posted on 9/21/11 at 8:41 am to SaintEB
Also, when you add up Sproles, Ingram and Thomas day on Sunday you have over 100 yards rushing. I love RB by committee, especially when everyone contributes.
Posted on 9/21/11 at 8:48 am to The Sad Banana
quote:
Also, when you add up Sproles, Ingram and Thomas day on Sunday you have over 100 yards rushing. I love RB by committee, especially when everyone contributes.
I like the committee thing too, but it leads to SFP's argument that maybe the price was too high for 1 of 4 RBs that will see time.
ETA: I liked the Ingram pick and didn't mind the price they paid and that hasn't changed. Ask me again in 10 weeks.
This post was edited on 9/21/11 at 8:49 am
Posted on 9/21/11 at 8:52 am to SaintEB
quote:
I like the committee thing too, but it leads to SFP's argument that maybe the price was too high for 1 of 4 RBs that will see time. ETA: I liked the Ingram pick and didn't mind the price they paid and that hasn't changed. Ask me again in 10 weeks.
Ditto
Posted on 9/21/11 at 8:56 am to SaintEB
like i said i put most blame on the staff. their running philosophy AS OF NOW doesn't seem to gel with what ingram is good at AS OF NOW. and this point isn't even about RBBC..it's more of how we are pass-first run-second right now
add in the RBBC and it becomes a head scratcher AS OF NOW. like you said, things may be different in 10 weeks
we do need either ingram/OL/playcalling to become better on short downs or we need to try something else entirely
add in the RBBC and it becomes a head scratcher AS OF NOW. like you said, things may be different in 10 weeks
we do need either ingram/OL/playcalling to become better on short downs or we need to try something else entirely
Posted on 9/21/11 at 8:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
we do need either ingram/OL/playcalling to become better on short downs or we need to try something else entirely
And they need to figure it out now.
Posted on 9/21/11 at 9:02 am to SlowFlowPro
They need to start using Sproles in motion during snap with the handoff to Sproles/handoff to other RB/play action options like we did all the time with Bush in 06. I don't understand why we ever got away from that play.
Posted on 9/21/11 at 9:25 am to THRILLHO
quote:
They need to start using Sproles in motion during snap with the handoff to Sproles/handoff to other RB/play action options like we did all the time with Bush in 06. I don't understand why we ever got away from that play.
this
that was a great play, keep the d on its heels
Posted on 9/21/11 at 9:36 am to SaintEB
quote:But here's the thing...I don't think you draft a RB nowadays to carry the ball 30 times a game. The shelf life on a RB that gets worn out like that is very, very short considering the money owed to them.
I like the committee thing too, but it leads to SFP's argument that maybe the price was too high for 1 of 4 RBs that will see time.
ETA: I liked the Ingram pick and didn't mind the price they paid and that hasn't changed. Ask me again in 10 weeks.
Which is why I love what the Saints did. Yes, they gave up picks and yes they gave up money, but look at what they have. They have Mark Ingram, Pierre Thomas and Darren Sproles. Not to mention last year's rushing leader, Ivory, coming back in four weeks.
By mixing these guys' workloads, as well as having a pass first offense, you extend the longevity of their careers, which in turn extends the possible success of your offense.
Just because a RB may cost you money doesn't mean you don't get him. Just because he may get 15 touches doesn't mean you don't go out and make the best choice for those 15 carries.
Posted on 9/21/11 at 10:01 am to PokerPlayingTiger
I say let's just let the season play out a bit more and see how he does.
As it's already been said, this team doesn't have a "feature back" as it's commonly understood. As to the SI article,
As it's already been said, this team doesn't have a "feature back" as it's commonly understood. As to the SI article,
Posted on 9/21/11 at 10:21 am to The Sad Banana
quote:
But here's the thing...I don't think you draft a RB nowadays to carry the ball 30 times a game. The shelf life on a RB that gets worn out like that is very, very short considering the money owed to them.
well then you don't overvalue RBs, which means (1) you don't pick them high/give up much and (2) you don't pay them much
we're pretty good on #2, but ingram may have been a lot of draft to give up
fwiw, i think the vikings are IDIOTS for the deal they gave AP. and i think the titans are even more stupid for what they gave CJ
Posted on 9/21/11 at 11:35 am to SlowFlowPro
The jury is still out because it's only been two weeks, but the Saints have been needing stablity at RB for a few years. And since they couldn't rely on PT and Ivory or anybody else to stay healthy through the year, I can't blame them for stealing the best RB available.
This post was edited on 9/21/11 at 11:36 am
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