re: SFP's RB argument

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But they gave up too much to get.

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I dont think you can say that at this point. first we dont know what kind of production we will get out of him...next, maybe they feel he is a great fit in their system. some of the other backs may not block as good(very important in paytons system), or may not be able to pick up the advanced offense as fast. a back has to be able to do everything in this offense.

if he turns out to be a very good player or a beast it was well worth it. if turns out to be a bust, well then he is a bust and they overpaid.

the draft isnt an exact science, so its hard to just come out and say they paid too much.

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Team A has 1 RB that rushes for 1500 yds. Team B has 2 RB,s 1 rushes for 900 and the other for 600. What team had a better running game?

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The team that took less rushes to get those same yards, obviously. I don't care if Ingram goes for 1,500 yards by himself, but I think he's good enough to make the Saints running game significantly better. Which will make the entire offense better. Which will make the team better. But I dont' think we should trade PT by any means. It will take a stable. Our stable is just a lot better now.

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I think a lot of people are grossly over rating M Ingram because he is a SEC guy and they know him.

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Fair point, but I disagree. I think he's special. His vision and balance are great, and has (or did in college) the ability to take over games. I could be wrong, you could be right. But that's a separate argument than "RBs have no value." Hell, they have the ball more than anybody on the team who's not a QB. Of course they have value.

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if he turns out to be a very good player or a beast it was well worth it. if turns out to be a bust, well then he is a bust and they overpaid

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I don't look at it with 20/20 hindsight. What we don't or can't know is who else they would have gotten. Even if he is a beast, you don't know if they would or could have gotten an OLB and another RB that would have made a difference.

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the draft isnt an exact science, so its hard to just come out and say they paid too much.

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It is , but its not hard to say they gave up too much. Unless he becomes LaDanain Tomlinson or something, which is highly unlikly, particularly given the offense they run. Plus they just gave Thomas a new contract and are at least saying they want to keep Bush. Sounds like a platoon.

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some of the other backs may not block as good(very important in paytons system),

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There is literally no way he is so far and away a better blocker than everyone else that its worth giving up another player.

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I think a lot of people are grossly over rating M Ingram because he is a SEC guy and they know him. He may be the best RB in this class, but he is not as good a prospect as some are making him out. He had 1 great year. Just because he is roughly the same size as E Smith and people said both were "slow" does not mean he is E Smith. He's not. Smith was better, more consistent player in college. I think he'll be a a good player. But they gave up too much to get.

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Sure, it's ludicrous to say we just drafted a HOF back. No one knows anything yet. Everyone in the draft from top to bottom is an on-paper prospect.

But the similarities are hard to casually dismiss. On paper, he's a close to an Emmitt clone as it gets:


-Ingram in college has shown the same balance, the same vision, the same cutting ability, & the same break-tackle ability. He doesn't give tacklers a good angle and always falls forward.

-He is the exact same size as Emmitt (5-9, 215) and slightly better speed than Emmitt.

-Both got accumulated 4000 plus total rush/rec career yards and 40 plus total TD's in the SEC.

-Both were drafted in the second half of the 1st round because of their height/speed deficiencies despite the high level college production

-Emmitt had a lot lof talent around him at Dallas as does Ingram now with the Saints

-Hell, they even wore the same #22 and arguably kinda look-alike in the face, although I'm not sure if Ingram can dance.


Sean Payton apparently thinks this all adds up to a recipe for success. If SP is going to burn a 2nd rounder on a quality RB, it's hard for me not to agree with the move.

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you SECtards need to realize the SEC is not like the NFL and the B1G is not like D2.

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totally agree

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In 2009 Toby Gerhardt played against more top 50 run defenses than Ingram.

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However, just because they were ranked in the top 50, doesn't mean they actually were one of the 50 best run defenses. They throw the ball a lot more in the Pac 10 than the SEC, so that clearly skews the stats. These rankings are pretty meaningless with everybody playing such dissimilar schedules. Like the tards who kept insisting LSU had the "110" best offense in the NCAA 2 years ago. They were horrible, no doubt, but sorry a WAC or Sun Belt team ranked 2 spots higher is not "better." Just better relative to thier schedules. But I digress...

honestly SFP is a good guy, and i like him, but if he thinks that this pick was a bad move, in reality, then it is a great thing. i say this because i think jake is usually wrong in his analysis.

i really like the ingram pick as Rb health was a major issue for us in the 2010 season.

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SFP is a transparent contrarian. He confidently posts like he knows something everyone else doesn't, and that has gained him a few loyal sheep here, but really he just opposes the majority opinion, which includes Sean Payton's opinion half the time.

If this board universally went, "Holy shite! Look at Martez Wilson's film. Dude is a monster! We finally got a pass rusher at LB" then SFP would have said "He's going to play over the TE mostly, and he can't cover. Left school early after missing the previous year due to a herniated disc surgery. Would have preferred SS Tyler Sash."

But if this board would have universally went, "Who is Martez Wilson? Why did we take a chance on a guy with a injury history but didn't on Bowers? Should we have taken Drake Nevis?" then SFP would have went, "The injury is a non-factor. After his surgery, he still had 112 tackles and was All Big Ten. Should have been taken in the 1st round. As far as Nevis...

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this is a great post.

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honestly SFP is a good guy,

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Are you a girl he tried to date and now y'all are cool being "friends"

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The guy had some of the best measureables for rb's in the class

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not by a long shot