re: Saints rank #12 in drafting from 1996-2015

Not all picks are a straight boom bust proposition and not all are equal in terms of bust rate. According to data, the nfl average is about 90% of your first rounders need to be 40 game starters. It decreases by slot to about 60% by the end of the second.

You also have to consider how we've traded away high value picks. For example, we've only had 7 second round selections in 11 drafts under sp. Only 3 of those started 40 games (I'm counting Mike Thomas cause he's a beast).

You are counting Kikaha and Bell. How the frick can you count guys that haven't even been in the league for 3 years when it's impossible for them to have played 40 games?

These were our 2nd rounders:

Harper- Made a pro bowl and was very good at his role; Williams left him exposed to coverage too much in his system because of the blitzing but he was much better than what some fans claimed

Porter- very good number 2 corner who made the biggest plays in team history. Injury concerns made us look elsewhere but he has started and played well for several teams since

Brown- started most of a year but ultimately was a bust

Jean-Baptiste- complete bust

Kikaha- in running for ROY until injury and then missed his second year. Jury still out

Thomas- looks to be a surefire number 1 receiver going forward but jury still out

Bell- started some games as a rookie and played a lot of snaps. Had ups and downs but definitely has a role going forward. Jury still out.

We've had by far the fewest second round picks (thanks trades and bounty gate) but still did more good than bad with what we've had.

Now go do this for other teams.

You are counting guys that literally couldn't have made 40 starts. Not how this works.

Also hilarious how you took the round we've had the least amount of picks with and didn't go through our first and third rounds.

Stat skewing much?

Right but they are one of the best drafting teams in the league.

Nope. They understand that having more darts is usually better. But percentage wise they suck huge arse.

We are actually one of the better teams at the top percentage wise, but we give our darts away. Sometimes it works (like trading for vets) but more often it doesn't (trading up in the draft).

Cooks was one of the few that was actually working, but in the end we wound up with less value.

No you are counting guys before they can even have 40 starts.

If we are doing that than I say Kikaha, Bell, and Thomas all get more than 40 starts.

Now we have 5 of 7 and are better than league average.

See how that logic works?

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Vacherie Saint

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You are putting too much emphasis on people making the pro bowl or not. Also, we've had very few 2nd round selections. I'm not angry over our draft picks, I do hate the lack of draft picks we've had over the years. Not sure what your issue with Kikaha is.

1996 was quite a long time ago, and I'd say the last 10 years are really the only time period that reflects this regime and where we currently stand. Our drafts have been sub par, flat out lacking star power and impact defensive players. Not to mention continually trading up, even for skill position guys who we have found undrafted and later in the draft. Just flat out stupid when you really think about it.

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There is no need to be a Homer about this. How many pro bowl players and legit starters have the saints drafted in rounds 1 and 2 under payton? 6 solid starters of 13 picks not counting the last two drafts, just so we are fair. If you do count them, the number becomes 9 of 19. The nfl average for 40 game starters from rounds 1 and 2 is about 70%, we are around 45%. Only cam Jordan and mark ingram have ever made the pro bowl from that group for a total of 3 pro bowl seasons.

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Rounds 1 and 2

2006-Bush and Harper both legit starters, and good players

2007-Meachem and Young, both starters. Both went on and started awhile in this league even after the Saints

2008-Ellis and Porter-Both started for several years and Porter was at least still playing solid before last season iirc.

2009-Jenkins, only pick in first 2 rounds. Solid starter

2010- Patrick Robinson and Brown. PRob should have been given more time to develop, he was solid for the Chargers. Brown was a bust

2011-Cameron Jordan and Mark Ingram- Both solid starters

2012- no pick in first 2 rounds

2013- Vacarro, only pick in first 2 rounds-solid starter

2014-Cooks and SJB, Cooks was solid starter, SJB was just bad bad bad

2015-Peat, Anthony, Kikaha, Peat played well at LG and LT last year after being shuffled around. Anthony had good and bad moments starting at MLB as a rookie. Not a good year last year as he moved positions. I'd like to give him one more year. Kikaha was in talk with defensive rookie of the year (wouldn't have gotten it) but was in the talks. I'd like to see what happens with him this year.

2016-Rankins, MT, and Bell


How have our first 2 rounds been awful under Payton? Aside from lack of picks


When it boils down to it, the main true bust was a 2nd round pick in SJB. Brown who was also a 2nd rounder you could say was, but didn't he have a bad injury and we moved on from him? I know he went to the Redskins after