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1
Posted on 4/1/14 at 10:17 pm to Rand AlThor
Adding Dee ford as a pass rush specialist is nice and all but I'd be the most satisfied with van noy. Give me the guy who appears to be a jack of all trades.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 10:20 pm to Hoodoo Man
I actually just copied the image location from one of the threads you posted it in a while ago. 
Posted on 4/1/14 at 10:20 pm to LooseCannon22282
I have to admit I know nothing about Van Noy outside of his pass rushing. All of his highlights are pass rushing. Is he competant in coverage? That would put him a little higher on my list.
We need coverage skills at LB. it's the biggest weakness on our D
We need coverage skills at LB. it's the biggest weakness on our D
Posted on 4/1/14 at 10:23 pm to Rand AlThor
quote:It seems he's pretty well known for his coverage skills, and less for pass rushing.
I have to admit I know nothing about Van Noy outside of his pass rushing. All of his highlights are pass rushing. Is he competant in coverage? That would put him a little higher on my list.
Depending who you ask.
He's a smart and instinctual player that lacks great athleticism.
This post was edited on 4/1/14 at 10:25 pm
Posted on 4/1/14 at 10:28 pm to Rand AlThor
There is a hell of a right up on him somewhere on football outsiders. I posted a link the other day I think.
Apparently he doesn't have the upside that scouts want but can do everything at a decent level. He's real instinctive.
Apparently he doesn't have the upside that scouts want but can do everything at a decent level. He's real instinctive.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 10:41 pm to LooseCannon22282
quote:Doesn't sound all that enticing. I think I would rather someone who can excel at something (at least early in the draft).
Apparently he doesn't have the upside that scouts want but can do everything at a decent level.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 10:44 pm to LooseCannon22282
sounds like chase thomas
Posted on 4/1/14 at 10:45 pm to mm2316
This is why I use these numbers more as guidelines than facts. Go look at Hicks' highlights and then look at that -3.4 for pass rushing. I'm not saying is consistent and always making the play, but he is not a bad pass rusher.
I'll say the same for Foster and Jenkins(though being rookies I can see them lacking consistency last year).
Now a -7 is something more than just being inconsistent or having a questionable score. Hawthorne was just awful bad in coverage. And Lofton was often lost in space quite a lot.
You definitely have to use your eyes with these numbers.
That said, Jordan is a fricking beast.
Edit:
Forgot Dawson again. I see he only had 2 snaps in coverage, but both were good. I guess I took note of those two and banked it as him being solid.
I'll say the same for Foster and Jenkins(though being rookies I can see them lacking consistency last year).
Now a -7 is something more than just being inconsistent or having a questionable score. Hawthorne was just awful bad in coverage. And Lofton was often lost in space quite a lot.
You definitely have to use your eyes with these numbers.
That said, Jordan is a fricking beast.
Edit:
Forgot Dawson again. I see he only had 2 snaps in coverage, but both were good. I guess I took note of those two and banked it as him being solid.
This post was edited on 4/1/14 at 10:47 pm
Posted on 4/1/14 at 10:56 pm to goatmilker
quote:
Must disagree.
Galette is hands down in the dirt. Butler is a unknown at this point but Parys IS a solid one to contribute. This group is why I hope for a LB'er high in the draft.
you're right about all of this....but I think that we'll continue to play with 2 or 3 LBs on the field at a time with Byrd, Vaccaro, Bush, Lewis, and White/Robinson seeing heavy playing time.
You lose nothing with Vaccaro up acting as an OLB in certain situations
...making OLB depth for a true 3-4 defense not as necessary...I agree, however, that a guy next to Lofton in those 2 LB sets that can do some covering would go a long way.
This post was edited on 4/1/14 at 11:09 pm
Posted on 4/1/14 at 11:03 pm to drake20
I think this is one of the adjustments you're going to see in the league soon.
The 3-4 and 4-3 base sets are getting overblown. Seems like good defensive teams are starting to go with a 3 safety set (Seattle and us are the main two) because all the safeties are rangy in coverage and can tackle relatively well to stop the run as well.
The 3-4 and 4-3 base sets are getting overblown. Seems like good defensive teams are starting to go with a 3 safety set (Seattle and us are the main two) because all the safeties are rangy in coverage and can tackle relatively well to stop the run as well.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 11:03 pm to NOSHAU
Yeah, frick it. He must suck. I change my mind. I'll just go along with Dee ford since kiper keeps mocking him to Us.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 11:05 pm to drake20
Yeah I said before I think I overreacted to needing another corner and slowly made the transition to saying we REALLY need a cover LB. Like bad.
I think PRob and White are at least serviceable in their roles whereas Lofton and Hawthorne(especially Hawthorne) aren't really doing too well especially at their price.
As for total needs center is still first, but a cover LB is definitely my second and the biggest hole on defense.
I think PRob and White are at least serviceable in their roles whereas Lofton and Hawthorne(especially Hawthorne) aren't really doing too well especially at their price.
As for total needs center is still first, but a cover LB is definitely my second and the biggest hole on defense.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 11:06 pm to Hoodoo Man
quote:
You know, if you click on pass cov. up there, it'll rank each player by their score in that category.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 11:18 pm to htran90
quote:That's not true at all about Seattle:
I think this is one of the adjustments you're going to see in the league soon.
The 3-4 and 4-3 base sets are getting overblown. Seems like good defensive teams are starting to go with a 3 safety set (Seattle and us are the main two) because all the safeties are rangy in coverage and can tackle relatively well to stop the run as well.
LINK /
Their 3rd and 4th safeties played a combined 79 out of 1,042 snaps(7.5%). Combined two safeties would have played 2,084 snaps. In total Seattle's safeties played 2,093 snaps. That means there were only 9 plays where they had 3 safeties(less than 1%).
And there are no other teams that had 3 safety sets as the norm.
The ONLY reason we did it is because we had 4 starting quality safeties vs. 3 corners half the season(after PRob went down) and 2 corners the other half(after Greer went down).
We were actually starting to play White a lot more in nickel than a 3rd safety(when Harper was injured). Then Greer went down and Harper got healthy.
Going forward, if Prob is healthy and/or we draft a corner, I expect to see us playing 3 corners vs. 3 safeties more evenly. Situation dictated last season a lot more than scheme.
The only thing I agree with is that 3-4 and 4-3 are not base defenses any more. The league average was over 50% nickel packages(I think around 60%).
This post was edited on 4/1/14 at 11:21 pm
Posted on 4/1/14 at 11:23 pm to bonethug0108
I must've mistaken KJ wright as the coverage LB as the 3rd safety. my mistake
Posted on 4/1/14 at 11:25 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
Yeah I said before I think I overreacted to needing another corner and slowly made the transition to saying we REALLY need a cover LB. Like bad.
I think PRob and White are at least serviceable in their roles whereas Lofton and Hawthorne(especially Hawthorne) aren't really doing too well especially at their price.
As for total needs center is still first, but a cover LB is definitely my second and the biggest hole on defense.
+1
Honestly, if Hawthorne's situation was a little more cap-friendly, I'd say cut bait and make versatile LB priority #1.
For me, need-wise right now, it's:
WR
LB (with versatility and coverage ability...true position doesn't really matter for this D, imo)
CB
Posted on 4/1/14 at 11:29 pm to htran90
quote:Understandable, especially being that we don't know what a true cover LB looks like first hand.
I must've mistaken KJ wright as the coverage LB as the 3rd safety. my mistake
Edit:
Okay, now that I realize how very true that is I need to cry.
Last good one we had was Vilma for a few years and I couldn't tell you before that. Fujita was decent too.
Hell thinking about it, last time we had a ball hawking safety and a coverage LB something special happened.
This post was edited on 4/1/14 at 11:32 pm
Posted on 4/1/14 at 11:33 pm to htran90
quote:
I must've mistaken KJ wright as the coverage LB as the 3rd safety. my mistake
wrong, but not really....Vaccaro can be that and more, so so versatile
Posted on 4/1/14 at 11:41 pm to bonethug0108
Redid the whole post.
% of 3 safeties played
Chiefs- 68%
Saints- 66%
Bills- 56%
Dolphins- 55%
Bengals- 54%
Cardinals at 47%.
Vikings- 26%
Giants- 25%
Rams- 25%
Titans- 22%
So only 1 other team(2 teams total for 6% of the league) employed the 3 safety set as much as us(2/3rds).
4 other teams used 3 safeties about half the time(13%), and 4 more about a quarter of the time(13%). No one else had over 20%.
So all together only about 1/5th(20%) of the league used 3 safeties at least half the time.
I actually found 3 teams, Jets, Redskins, and Chargers(55%), that actually played with 1 safety for a good bit of plays.
Edit:
Interesting thing with the Chiefs is they also used 3 corners 60% of the time. So they were actually in nickel or dime almost all the time.
They used 4 LBs 40% of the time and 3 linemen 32% of the time. So they usually ran a 2-3-8, meaning their base D was dime with 3 corners and 3 safeties.
The Bills actually played with 1 corner on 4% of the snaps. The Bills were forced to use 3 safeties because their starting corners missed 6 games combined.
The Dolphins were similar to the Bills, except it was their 3rd and 4th corners missing 21 games combined.
The Bengals had one starter miss 3 games, their 3rd corner miss 2, and their 4th miss 11.
The Cardinals just didn't play their 3rd and 4th corners(less than 25% of the snaps combined between the two).
So I have to say looking at everything, circumstance more than anything lead to 5 of the 6 teams(us included) playing 3 safeties a lot.
I'd have to look into the Chiefs more because I know they had injuries but not in the secondary like the other teams.
Edit2:
The Chiefs top 3 LBs missed 7 games combined. Their top 4 linemen missed 5 games. They also have a lot of games missed at those positions at the backup spots.
I have to imagine that, and playing Manning twice, forced them into a lot more nickel and dime than they would have been in otherwise.
% of 3 safeties played
Chiefs- 68%
Saints- 66%
Bills- 56%
Dolphins- 55%
Bengals- 54%
Cardinals at 47%.
Vikings- 26%
Giants- 25%
Rams- 25%
Titans- 22%
So only 1 other team(2 teams total for 6% of the league) employed the 3 safety set as much as us(2/3rds).
4 other teams used 3 safeties about half the time(13%), and 4 more about a quarter of the time(13%). No one else had over 20%.
So all together only about 1/5th(20%) of the league used 3 safeties at least half the time.
I actually found 3 teams, Jets, Redskins, and Chargers(55%), that actually played with 1 safety for a good bit of plays.
Edit:
Interesting thing with the Chiefs is they also used 3 corners 60% of the time. So they were actually in nickel or dime almost all the time.
They used 4 LBs 40% of the time and 3 linemen 32% of the time. So they usually ran a 2-3-8, meaning their base D was dime with 3 corners and 3 safeties.
The Bills actually played with 1 corner on 4% of the snaps. The Bills were forced to use 3 safeties because their starting corners missed 6 games combined.
The Dolphins were similar to the Bills, except it was their 3rd and 4th corners missing 21 games combined.
The Bengals had one starter miss 3 games, their 3rd corner miss 2, and their 4th miss 11.
The Cardinals just didn't play their 3rd and 4th corners(less than 25% of the snaps combined between the two).
So I have to say looking at everything, circumstance more than anything lead to 5 of the 6 teams(us included) playing 3 safeties a lot.
I'd have to look into the Chiefs more because I know they had injuries but not in the secondary like the other teams.
Edit2:
The Chiefs top 3 LBs missed 7 games combined. Their top 4 linemen missed 5 games. They also have a lot of games missed at those positions at the backup spots.
I have to imagine that, and playing Manning twice, forced them into a lot more nickel and dime than they would have been in otherwise.
This post was edited on 4/2/14 at 1:40 am
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