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Message
re: Do we resign Mark Ingram?
Posted on 11/11/14 at 4:30 pm to Chad504boy
Posted on 11/11/14 at 4:30 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
Draft a G, still think Lelito has played well for us.
He has. Time to give him the starting nod.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 4:43 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
We have a great RT
Wouldn't call him great but I'm not talking about streif. We need to have someone behind him. Harris is terrible and streif has been banged up a lot. If he or Armstead go down we are screwed. but that's not as much a priority as Guard and Center.
Given how badly pressure up the middle effects Drew, I'd place more value on center than most teams. Lelito has been ok but I'd rather more than ok at that spot.
The best teams under SP were never OK on the O-line, they were loaded with pro-bowlers and 1 by 1 we've elected to pay position players over keeping these guys. It's time to re-tool the O-line through the draft and free agency.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 4:49 pm to GeauxBayouBengals
quote:
The bigger question is, will Mark Ingram seriously consider re-signing here? I say no, he is ready to breakout and become a star and that won't happen here as long as the offense is tailored around taking shots down the field in the passing game. Expect Mark Ingram to be playing elsewhere next year. The only way I see him coming back is if the Saints franchise him but I don't think they can really afford to do that.
Chad says you're wrong. He thinks Ingram will stay for 4 million a year and no other team would offer him that much. And Ingram wants to stay in New Orleans because he's so well liked. So you're wrong. Sorry.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 4:52 pm to Suntiger
You don't pay attention too well to what I say
I've said we might need to pay 6.5 and 7.5 a yr to keep him
I also think atl and Tampa might be two teams that could make a run
I've said we might need to pay 6.5 and 7.5 a yr to keep him
I also think atl and Tampa might be two teams that could make a run
Posted on 11/11/14 at 4:54 pm to whoknows1390
quote:
and 1 by 1 we've elected to pay position players over keeping these guys
Jahri has been our biggest issue.
Our guards are not living up to their pay grades
Posted on 11/11/14 at 4:55 pm to whoknows1390
quote:
Guard is a problem, Center is a problem, and they probably need to address the RT situation as well. Obviously all will not be addressed in one offseason but if you use cap space to sign an established RT, draft a guard in the first round and look for a C in the 3rd or 4th then that's a huge step in the right direction.
You do realize Strief was, I believe if my memory is right, the highest rated RT in the league last year, he's the highest graded lineman on our team, and he's in the 1st year of a 5yr/20mil contract we just gave him.
Why would we address the RT situation when he's the most solid lineman we have on our team and we invested 4mil into him?
Posted on 11/11/14 at 4:56 pm to TigerBait1127
Totally agree. Jahri and Grubbs has been very disappointing.
Definitely makes you wonder If Krohmer leaving had that big of an impact.
I know grubbs came after Kromer left, he has just been a disappointing signing in general.
Definitely makes you wonder If Krohmer leaving had that big of an impact.
I know grubbs came after Kromer left, he has just been a disappointing signing in general.
This post was edited on 11/11/14 at 4:58 pm
Posted on 11/11/14 at 4:57 pm to htran90
go read the post after, I'm not talking about Stief. I'm talking about the gaping whole behind him.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 4:59 pm to whoknows1390
Doesn't really make sense in context.
Why would we sign an established free agent for a backup role? How is that a situation?
You're back tracking
Also, we've invested in our interior. Jahri feel off a cliff
Why would we sign an established free agent for a backup role? How is that a situation?
You're back tracking
Also, we've invested in our interior. Jahri feel off a cliff
This post was edited on 11/11/14 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 11/11/14 at 5:04 pm to TigerBait1127
I suppose established isn't the right word but call it however you want to. It's a situation when Streif goes down, as he has multiple times this year. I'm not here to argue, just stating an opinion. I just feel that the O-line is in bad condition and needs serious attention.
Jahri is the only investment we've mad in our interior. No idea what happened to him but yeah if he were playing up to par the situation wouldn't look as bad.
Jahri is the only investment we've mad in our interior. No idea what happened to him but yeah if he were playing up to par the situation wouldn't look as bad.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 5:04 pm to whoknows1390
That gaping hole behind him, most teams have a gaping hole behind their starting tackles. How much do you want to allocate in 'finding' another tackle? Because it shouldn't be coming from free agency, maybe a mid-late round flyer pick. Which we have invested heavily in every damned year in trying to find a serviceable backup in the draft.
This is where you're half wrong. We did address those issues when we lost players. 2nd round Charlie Brown to replace Bushrod. Bushrod replaced Jammal Brown. Grubbs (pro-bowl caliber) replaced Nicks. Kreutz to replace Goodwin. DLP to replace Kreutz. Lelito and Goodwin to replace DLP. Some of those moves were patchwork, but most of them were right moves. You can't keep every pro-bowl/all-pro player that you produce on your roster. If we did, we'd have 30+mil allocated to 5 lineman.
What the true issue is, underperforming interior lineman for their pay. One will be cut this year and I'm sure his replacement is in the draft.
quote:
The best teams under SP were never OK on the O-line, they were loaded with pro-bowlers and 1 by 1 we've elected to pay position players over keeping these guys. It's time to re-tool the O-line through the draft and free agency.
This is where you're half wrong. We did address those issues when we lost players. 2nd round Charlie Brown to replace Bushrod. Bushrod replaced Jammal Brown. Grubbs (pro-bowl caliber) replaced Nicks. Kreutz to replace Goodwin. DLP to replace Kreutz. Lelito and Goodwin to replace DLP. Some of those moves were patchwork, but most of them were right moves. You can't keep every pro-bowl/all-pro player that you produce on your roster. If we did, we'd have 30+mil allocated to 5 lineman.
What the true issue is, underperforming interior lineman for their pay. One will be cut this year and I'm sure his replacement is in the draft.
This post was edited on 11/11/14 at 5:06 pm
Posted on 11/11/14 at 5:16 pm to htran90
quote:
That gaping hole behind him, most teams have a gaping hole behind their starting tackles. How much do you want to allocate in 'finding' another tackle? Because it shouldn't be coming from free agency, maybe a mid-late round flyer pick. Which we have invested heavily in every damned year in trying to find a serviceable backup in the draft.
Yea, and what I mean by established is someone who can step in and hold his own in case of injury, not looking for a pro-bowler.
is where you're half wrong. We did address those issues when we lost players. 2nd round Charlie Brown to replace Bushrod. Bushrod replaced Jammal Brown. Grubbs (pro-bowl caliber) replaced Nicks. Kreutz to replace Goodwin. DLP to replace Kreutz. Lelito and Goodwin to replace DLP. Some of those moves were patchwork, but most of them were right moves. You can't keep every pro-bowl/all-pro player that you produce on your roster. If we did, we'd have 30+mil allocated to 5 lineman.
Again, I understand that you can't keep them all, and that the problem is compounded by the fact that they did keep Evans and he's played like shite. Just seems that the FO places more value on skill players than the beef up front. My opinion is you keep the beef up front and skill position players will work themselves out. Brees can make a subpar WR look pretty damn good when hes got time in the pocket.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 5:20 pm to htran90
Obviously, the front office knows what they're doing, hence the 8 years of sustained success. I just think the staple of our best teams has been the O-line and we've gotten away from that recently.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 5:33 pm to whoknows1390
We have 6th best rushing and top 3 passing and people act like our o line is horrible
Posted on 11/11/14 at 5:36 pm to whoknows1390
quote:
Again, I understand that you can't keep them all, and that the problem is compounded by the fact that they did keep Evans and he's played like shite. Just seems that the FO places more value on skill players than the beef up front. My opinion is you keep the beef up front and skill position players will work themselves out. Brees can make a subpar WR look pretty damn good when hes got time in the pocket.
I'm tired of the "Brees can turn coal into gold" when dealing with receivers. Why did we draft Cooks instead of just using tanner, right? Why does Rodgers get loaded with 2nd round receivers (Jordy, Cobb, and Adams). Why did Denver go after Latimer?
Because at some point, those high round picks have more potential than late round picks.
They kept Evans by giving him a contract in 2010 when he was 27. That's the prime age for a lineman, and he gave us 1st team all-pro caliber play from 2010-2012. Last year, he gave us 2nd team all-pro caliber play, and he came back to form after his first major injury of his career. It wasn't until last year that he showed any signs of slowing down, and this year he just decided to jump off a cliff.
That is EXTREME hindsight thinking, about 4 years. Considering a lot of HOF potential lineman play into their mid-30s, giving Evans the contract was a smart thing to do. No one could have predicted in 2010 he'd fall of a cliff at the age of 31, no one.
The only skills position player we "splurged" on were Jimmy Graham, which is a #1 receiving option and Colston, which was always Brees' clutch receiver that came off a 5th 1k receiving year out of 6 years at the time of the contract. He even went to produce another 1150/10TD year in 2012. Then injuries plagued him last year, and you see the effects of age this year.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 5:43 pm to whoknows1390
quote:
and that the problem is compounded by the fact that they did keep Evans and he's played like shite.
This is the first year he's played like shite
Posted on 11/11/14 at 5:46 pm to TigerBait1127
Last yr he wasn't that good
Posted on 11/11/14 at 5:47 pm to whoknows1390
quote:
Obviously, the front office knows what they're doing, hence the 8 years of sustained success. I just think the staple of our best teams has been the O-line and we've gotten away from that recently.
Bad drafting, untimely underperformances, and loss of coaches is what is "gotten away". You have to consider who and how much we allocated to certein players. We signed two top guards to a combined 15.3mil average salary, so we shouldn't expect to draft more guards. We had a cheap RT for years until we gave him a 4yr/20mil contract this past year, so don't expect to see many RTs drafted.
2010: 2nd round Tackle Charles Brown, 5th round Center Matt Tennant
2012: 6th round Guard Andrew Tiller, 7th round Tackle Marcel Jones
2013: 3rd round Tackle Terron Armstead, UDFA C/G Tim Lelito
2014: 6th round Tackle Tavon Rooks.
In the same span WR/TE/RB offensive skills position:
2010: 3rd round TE Jimmy Graham, UDFA RB Chris Ivory
2011: 1st round RB Mark Ingram
2012: 2nd round for Mark Ingram, 4th round WR Nick Toon
2013: 5th round WR Kenny Stills, UDFA TE Josh Hill, UDFA RB Khiry Robinson
2014: 1st round/3rd round WR Brandin Cooks
In that same span, we've replaced every LT we had with drafties. 2nd round Charles Brown, 3rd round Terron Armstead. We replaced Goodwin with two UDFA in DLP and Lelito.
Up until last year, it worked fine and Brees was one of the least pressured QBs in the league. As we restocked and retooled our OL, we didn't fiddle much with receivers. Lance Moore played for us since 2006, Marques Colston played for us since 2006, Robert Meachem played for us since 2007 (and left in 2012), and PT played for us since 2007.
Skills position players get "old" at a faster rate than OL do and you have to consider how many WR/RB/TEs you have to carry into a game compared to lineman.
This is a year where a 1st round Guard should be considered. We need to get younger at guard and to reduce some cap strain.
This post was edited on 11/11/14 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 11/11/14 at 6:04 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
A top 8 back in the league is worth more than 4 mill a year.
Backs are as good as their offensive line.
Look at the ypc for all guys on the team for reference.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 6:31 pm to Cranky Jorts
quote:
Do we resign Mark Ingram?
As I understand the NFL's rules, I believe he would have to resign, we would consider not signing him to a new contract or trading him to another team.
This post was edited on 11/11/14 at 6:35 pm
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