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Started By
Message
re: BOUNTY SUSPENSIONS OF PLAYERS OVERTURNED!!!!!.......for now
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:14 pm to kclsufan
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:14 pm to kclsufan
quote:
quote:
It is does appear that the Appeals Council believed that it does exist, as per 'In our view, the alleged bounty program was both an undisclosed agreement to provide compensation to players and an agreement to cause injury'..
I think on this part they're still speaking about jurisdiction for the alleged bounty program assuming it's as the league claimed, not an independent finding that there was one.
Could be. Its unclear. We will know more clarification on this when the full decision is rendered.
I still think ( my opinion anyway ) it will be interesting to see how Goodell has to separate the 'intent to injure' evidence from the 'pay for performance'. This, I think, will make or break this whole ordeal.
1
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:18 pm to TBCommish
I see this as good news either way. The players can play as of now and now Roger has to come up with hard evidence that there was INTENT TO INJURE. That's going to be near impossible to prove
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:22 pm to moneyg
This whole appeals ruling might be good for the NFL. In fact it may have been their plan. Now Goodell can resuspend the players under the pay to injure label only. ( he does not need to show evidence for this )
Then when they go back to Judge B. She might not be able to rule i'n favor of the players because the jurisdictional problems with pay for performance will no longer be included.
Then when they go back to Judge B. She might not be able to rule i'n favor of the players because the jurisdictional problems with pay for performance will no longer be included.
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:23 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
Question, who ACUTALLY oveturned the suspensions??? 
And what are the next steps for things to come with Vilmas lawsuit?
And what are the next steps for things to come with Vilmas lawsuit?
This post was edited on 9/7/12 at 6:26 pm
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:31 pm to Geauxtigrs04
So by the end of next week Goodell will probably just reduce the suspensions a bit, and it will be back in Federal court. Going to be a long, maybe season long, process till this is completely resolved.
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:32 pm to ATLienTiger
@adbrandt: Just Judge Berrigan laying in wait. RT @nsn729 What happens if Goodell drops the hammer again? Does anything prevent this?
id be licking my chops if I were Berrigan
id be licking my chops if I were Berrigan
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:37 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
Just Judge Berrigan laying in wait.
To do what? Is this just going to be this endless stupid circle?
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:38 pm to LakeViewLSU
Goodell doesn't need proof of intent to injure, but i highly doubt he will lay the hammer down AGAIN without proof. He'll b viewed as corrupt by everyone then, not just by saints fans.
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:38 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
id be licking my chops if I were Berrigan
I thought Berrigans best reasoning to rule i'n favor of the players was that Goodell had no jurisdiction under the CBA to suspend for " pay for performance " . If P for P is no longer an issue then she may not be able to help the players.
I could be wrong though. I'm Unemployed.
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:39 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
Concise and clear....
From a P.R. perspective, Friday’s ruling from an internal appeals panel amounts to a huge win for the Saints and the players suspended as part of the alleged bounty program. From a legal perspective, the end result could be the same, eventually.
The ruling, made not by a court but as part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement’s internal procedures, sets the process back to square one and requires Commissioner Roger Goodell to impose discipline from scratch, with a requirement that his decisions stay clearly within the confines of his authority. He has the power to impose discipline for conduct detrimental to the game, but he lacks the power to impose discipline for any salary-cap violations arising from the alleged pay-for-performance/bounty system.
This time, Goodell needs to make it clear that he has remained in his lane.
That’s the import of the ruling. Nothing more. The arbitration panel didn’t determine whether there was — or wasn’t — a bounty program or whether the players may — or may not — be disciplined for their participation in the program.
Instead, the panel said it wasn’t clear from the documents generated by the NFL whether Goodell imposed discipline for conduct detrimental to the game (which he has the power to do) or salary-cap violations (which he doesn’t have the power to do). At this point, then, there’s no reason to think the ultimate outcome will be any different, with Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma suspended for a year, Saints defensive end Will Smith suspended for four games, Browns linebacker Scott Fujita suspended for four games, and free-agent defensive end Anthony Hargrove suspended for eight games.
Actually, this gives Goodell and company an opportunity for a Mulligan. They can go back to square one and re-do the process in a way that will make it more likely to withstand any and all challenges, in court or otherwise.
LINK
From a P.R. perspective, Friday’s ruling from an internal appeals panel amounts to a huge win for the Saints and the players suspended as part of the alleged bounty program. From a legal perspective, the end result could be the same, eventually.
The ruling, made not by a court but as part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement’s internal procedures, sets the process back to square one and requires Commissioner Roger Goodell to impose discipline from scratch, with a requirement that his decisions stay clearly within the confines of his authority. He has the power to impose discipline for conduct detrimental to the game, but he lacks the power to impose discipline for any salary-cap violations arising from the alleged pay-for-performance/bounty system.
This time, Goodell needs to make it clear that he has remained in his lane.
That’s the import of the ruling. Nothing more. The arbitration panel didn’t determine whether there was — or wasn’t — a bounty program or whether the players may — or may not — be disciplined for their participation in the program.
Instead, the panel said it wasn’t clear from the documents generated by the NFL whether Goodell imposed discipline for conduct detrimental to the game (which he has the power to do) or salary-cap violations (which he doesn’t have the power to do). At this point, then, there’s no reason to think the ultimate outcome will be any different, with Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma suspended for a year, Saints defensive end Will Smith suspended for four games, Browns linebacker Scott Fujita suspended for four games, and free-agent defensive end Anthony Hargrove suspended for eight games.
Actually, this gives Goodell and company an opportunity for a Mulligan. They can go back to square one and re-do the process in a way that will make it more likely to withstand any and all challenges, in court or otherwise.
LINK
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:39 pm to LakeViewLSU
quote:
I could be wrong though. I'm Unemployed.
Awwwwwwww.
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:42 pm to sicboy
quote:
Awwwwwwww.
No need to feel bad. It's great!
Posted on 9/7/12 at 6:44 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
Who Dat
Goodell
GoodellPosted on 9/7/12 at 7:15 pm to motorbreath
quote:
Goodell doesn't need proof of intent to injure, but i highly doubt he will lay the hammer down AGAIN without proof. He'll b viewed as corrupt by everyone then, not just by saints fans.
It's not as cut an dry as a purely legal proceeding now. With all the press this issue has gotten to the point today where shills like Teddy Bruschi are saying this pay for performance happens all over (where before they were all up in arms and waxing indignant all over ESPN/NFLN), he can't really come down nearly as strong as he did the first time.
At this point you have to look at the crimes he can punish over, which is pay for performance. Put that next to spygate, where one team actually cheated on the field and gained a competitive advantage over other teams...how in the hell is Goodell going to justify a small office pool as being worse than what the Patriots did?
Of course he can do it, but it will be a PR fiasco and he will look more unjust than he ever did before.
At this point too, he has to be asking himself if his ultimate plan of scapegoating and hammering the Saints so hard in order to look proactive in all the pending and upcoming lawsuits over player safety is going to have the same effect after all this negative publicity.
I think he comes back with something, but it will be much milder. He has to in order to save face. If he can't justify 4 games or something like that, then I think he falls on his sword over all this and is fired. Don't see any other way this ends...that is, unless he actually has real evidence of a pay to injure program and he shows it.
Posted on 9/7/12 at 7:35 pm to LegalTiger
quote:
At this point you have to look at the crimes he can punish over, which is pay for performance
You have it backwards. It's pay for injury that he has jurisdiction to punish the players for. Pay for performance is a salary cap issue and not player related.
Posted on 9/7/12 at 7:51 pm to kclsufan
Might be a little redundant to some other posts, but my attempt to boil it down is this:
Panel found that league alleged a "bounty pool" that paid for normal stuff (fumbles, INTs), which falls under Article 14 & 15, and intent to injure stuff ("cart-offs," "knock-outs"), which would be under Article 46. So the same pool could potentially involve violations under all above articles.
Now Goodell must go back and punish only for intent/agreement to injure. He won't have a real burden of proof but he will have to come up with enough evidence of the players intending to injure opponents to establish Article 46 jurisdiction or he will lose the same appeal the next time around.
Panel found that league alleged a "bounty pool" that paid for normal stuff (fumbles, INTs), which falls under Article 14 & 15, and intent to injure stuff ("cart-offs," "knock-outs"), which would be under Article 46. So the same pool could potentially involve violations under all above articles.
Now Goodell must go back and punish only for intent/agreement to injure. He won't have a real burden of proof but he will have to come up with enough evidence of the players intending to injure opponents to establish Article 46 jurisdiction or he will lose the same appeal the next time around.
Posted on 9/7/12 at 7:51 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
Why rename it? There is a disclaimer
Was kidding
It's full of dancing bananas
Posted on 9/7/12 at 7:56 pm to Juris Dawg
I would also add that, unlike the first time, the players have testified under oath that there was no intent to injure. Therefore putting punishment exclusively on that point is essentially an accusation of perjury before a federal court.
Not that it matters under the CBA, but it would be something for Judge Berrigan to think about (especially in Vilma's defamation suit) when it all inevitably ends up back in front of her.
Not that it matters under the CBA, but it would be something for Judge Berrigan to think about (especially in Vilma's defamation suit) when it all inevitably ends up back in front of her.
Posted on 9/7/12 at 8:37 pm to Juris Dawg
Not really. NFL evidence of a pay to injure scheme would not equal a courts finding of pay to injure scheme.
Posted on 9/7/12 at 9:03 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
This is the team of destiny. This team may go undefeated this year. We stacked! League F&%ked!
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