- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: An Outsiders opinion on Greg Williams
Posted on 2/5/12 at 11:51 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
Posted on 2/5/12 at 11:51 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
I still dont get why people dont realize we won the superbowl that year because we had hardgrove at dt and fujita at lolb and a healthy sharper. Fujita and hardgrove blitzed alot that year sharper helped harper
. We need to realize when they left williams coaching sucked.
. We need to realize when they left williams coaching sucked.
3
Posted on 2/6/12 at 5:02 am to Jarrt476
Posted on 2/6/12 at 8:36 am to saintsalwaysnumber1
quote:
I still dont get why people dont realize we won the superbowl that year because we had hardgrove at dt and fujita at lolb and a healthy sharper.
Sharper and Fujita I can agree with, but Hargrove? Seriously?
Posted on 2/6/12 at 9:12 am to saintsalwaysnumber1
quote:
the superbowl that year because we had hardgrove at dt and fujita at lolb and a healthy sharper.
This. Hargrove played ok, but wasn't a main cog or reason for the great defense.
Fujita was a really good underrated LBer. Fujita made it easier for Vilma to be Vilma and Shanle to be average. Didn't help this year that Vilma is hurt and Shanle is, well Shanle.
Sharper was awesome for us in '09. I really think we could have squeezed one more year out of him for situational defenses. Much like M. McKenzies last few years.
quote:
opinion on Greg Williams
He's a solid DC. Brings a lot of pressure. That's the rub though, you live by the blitz, you die by the blitz. Everyone in the league knows you can take advantage of Roman Harper on pass plays and that our OLBers pretty much suck and that our front four are not going to get pressure on the QB. The Saints need better personnel on defense. You can't defend all the things that GW did, but you can't blame him for everything either.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 9:47 am to Jarrt476
I'm in most agreement that expectations should be tempered. Scheme is vital but bottom line is that the players make the plays. I expect improvement. I hope it is even significant. Sometimes one significant player can stir the drink to make a big difference.
I prolly estimate the talent level higher than the OP though. The '11 group had enough talent to be as good as the '09 defense. The turnovers were the significant difference 26INTs/5TDs to 9INT/1TD is a significant loss. The eyeball test for me is when you find yourself reading the defense knowing what they are gonna do. I think there is a large factor of GW being "figured out".
As far as personnel since '09 in the draft they have added Patrick Robinson that has already outplayed TP22 at corner. Al Woods was a 4th Rd whiff. The #24 overall pick Jordan is a significant D investment. Maybe not the speed rushing DE many want but he showed good progress through the year. Wilson and Patrick are already expected to play increased roles. Even 7th Rd picks Romeus & Bussey look like potentially good additions.
They imported Alex Brown in '10. Seemed like a good guy to help but he was really just used up. Last year Franklin & Rogers looked like exactly what the deficient run D needed. Though not flops neither ended up with the degree of impact that might have been anticipated. Tom Johnson was another good add that was impeded by injury for the first half of the season. Amaya, IAQ, and Herring were good backup/ST player changes.
So I don't have an issue with the front office. I think they have made sufficient enough investment to if not improve the D, at least keep it from deteriorating.
There are some players at inflection points... Will Smith I wouldn't be disappointed to be let go- not cuz he is bad but that his salary has escalated beyond his performance. Vilma isn't so much age but the long term effect of bad knees (which is something to watch). I give him a pass for playing injured last year. I hope they can keep Dunbar. I liked him a lot more at MLB than SLB. Sedrick Ellis is who I am most puzzled about. He looked like he was coming on in '10 but fell off a cliff last year. I've heard no rumor that there was any injury that might have slowed him down either.
I think the back end of the defense is at a great place of talent/age ratio. I expect PRob, Jenkins, & Patrick to have continued improvement.
I prolly estimate the talent level higher than the OP though. The '11 group had enough talent to be as good as the '09 defense. The turnovers were the significant difference 26INTs/5TDs to 9INT/1TD is a significant loss. The eyeball test for me is when you find yourself reading the defense knowing what they are gonna do. I think there is a large factor of GW being "figured out".
As far as personnel since '09 in the draft they have added Patrick Robinson that has already outplayed TP22 at corner. Al Woods was a 4th Rd whiff. The #24 overall pick Jordan is a significant D investment. Maybe not the speed rushing DE many want but he showed good progress through the year. Wilson and Patrick are already expected to play increased roles. Even 7th Rd picks Romeus & Bussey look like potentially good additions.
They imported Alex Brown in '10. Seemed like a good guy to help but he was really just used up. Last year Franklin & Rogers looked like exactly what the deficient run D needed. Though not flops neither ended up with the degree of impact that might have been anticipated. Tom Johnson was another good add that was impeded by injury for the first half of the season. Amaya, IAQ, and Herring were good backup/ST player changes.
So I don't have an issue with the front office. I think they have made sufficient enough investment to if not improve the D, at least keep it from deteriorating.
There are some players at inflection points... Will Smith I wouldn't be disappointed to be let go- not cuz he is bad but that his salary has escalated beyond his performance. Vilma isn't so much age but the long term effect of bad knees (which is something to watch). I give him a pass for playing injured last year. I hope they can keep Dunbar. I liked him a lot more at MLB than SLB. Sedrick Ellis is who I am most puzzled about. He looked like he was coming on in '10 but fell off a cliff last year. I've heard no rumor that there was any injury that might have slowed him down either.
I think the back end of the defense is at a great place of talent/age ratio. I expect PRob, Jenkins, & Patrick to have continued improvement.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 10:07 am to Jarrt476
quote:
Randall gay
I was curious where he ended up and I don't see him on any rosters...Is he out the league?
Posted on 2/6/12 at 10:12 am to saintsalwaysnumber1
I don't think Williams was a bad coach. I think he just descended into madness this year. He got a taste early in the year (mainly the Chicago game)of how the all out blitz could pay off, and he just wanted it more and more.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 10:13 am to supadave3
doing dow credit union ads for local ebr tv 
too many concussions, gave up the ghost
too many concussions, gave up the ghost
Posted on 2/6/12 at 10:18 am to Jarrt476
The OP sums up my thoughts perfectly. After a decade of shitty read-and-react defenses, we finally got a guy who attacks and tries to make plays behind the LOS.
At some point personnel becomes an issue. We know this group isnt any good and read-and-react bas defense. We knoe this group cannot get pressure without blitzing. We know this group rarely gets there when blitzing.
I dont see how much Spags can change without some new talent in the front seven.
maybe at best we are a 15th ranked D next year? That could be enough... although i think we have a chance at history if we can get a top 10.
At some point personnel becomes an issue. We know this group isnt any good and read-and-react bas defense. We knoe this group cannot get pressure without blitzing. We know this group rarely gets there when blitzing.
I dont see how much Spags can change without some new talent in the front seven.
maybe at best we are a 15th ranked D next year? That could be enough... although i think we have a chance at history if we can get a top 10.
This post was edited on 2/6/12 at 10:18 am
Posted on 2/6/12 at 10:18 am to blueslover
quote:
Scheme is vital but bottom line is that the players make the plays
Agreed.
quote:
Sometimes one significant player can stir the drink to make a big difference.
quote:
Jordan is a significant D investment. Maybe not the speed rushing DE many want but he showed good progress through the year.
quote:
7th Rd picks Romeus & Bussey look like potentially good additions.
quote:
made sufficient enough investment to if not improve the D, at least keep it from deteriorating.
quote:
Will Smith I wouldn't be disappointed to be let go- not cuz he is bad but that his salary has escalated beyond his performance.
quote:
Vilma isn't so much age but the long term effect of bad knees (which is something to watch). I give him a pass for playing injured last year.
quote:
I think the back end of the defense is at a great place of talent/age ratio.
I think this sums it all up. The big players for the '09 defense are gone (Sharper/Fujita) or getting older or injured (Will Smith/Vilma). The rest of that defensive talent is only ehhh (Ellis/Shanle/Harper). The other talent on the team is all young POTENTIAL (Jordan/Dunbar/TMart/PRob).
The defense really looks like it's at a cross roads talent wise. I'm not saying we need to totally rebuild, but we can't rely on Vilma or Smith to anchor this defense anymore and some postiions like OLB, DT, DE just need to be upgraded. IMO & IMHO
Posted on 2/6/12 at 10:49 am to Jarrt476
quote:
You hold Williams responsible for the horrible tackling in the Seattle game?
Yes, I hold the guy in charge of the defense responsible for the poor tackling technique that his defenders use. I'm tired of seeing defenders lunge at the legs of the offense.
This post was edited on 2/6/12 at 10:58 am
Posted on 2/6/12 at 10:52 am to Jarrt476
quote:You a Ram fan?
Jarrt476
Posted on 2/6/12 at 1:08 pm to BlacknGold
quote:LINK
when were we the 4th ranked defense?
Posted on 2/6/12 at 1:17 pm to blueslover
quote:I think this is the biggest factor.
. I think there is a large factor of GW being "figured out".
Posted on 2/6/12 at 2:24 pm to blueslover
quote:
doing dow credit union ads for local ebr tv
too many concussions, gave up the ghost
Gotcha...Thanks!
Posted on 2/6/12 at 3:14 pm to Meateye
quote:
Meateye
Not at all.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 5:16 pm to Jarrt476
quote:Bingo. I'm worried about our defense next year without Greg.
Greg Williams by no means is a slouch. He is a battle tested and well proven defensive coordinator in this game. I, along with many others here, question some of his calls in the San Fran games, but the man stuck to his guns and ran his attacking defense. Regardless of this blunder, Williams has put up some very solid defenses over the years, even the number four overall ranked defense last year.
So what is causing the disparity you might ask? The simple answer is personnel. The guy is playing with a washed up unit. The starters now are the back ups from the '09 team, Casillas and Dunbar. Vilma is aging at a position that tends to really show its age. The defensive backfield had an important role player in Randall gay, who is now gone and a more youthful Sharper and Harper. Not to mention from that time to the present you also lost Fujita, a major role player that year. To my knowledge there have been no real attempts to upgrade the unit outside of Cam Jordan. Martez Wilson was an excellent pick up in the third round but everyone knew he would be a project. And to make things worse the Saints traded away their future to draft a running back that might be the third best on the team on an offense that centers around Drew Brees, not the running game.
Now, Spagnuolo is faced with the same perils, and I notion you all not to expect much different results until different decisions are made to upgrade the unit as a whole not just a single entity. In the end, you shouldn't be mad at Greg Williams but at your organization for not giving him the pieces to complete the puzzle. Congrats on a great season. Good luck next year.
Page 2 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News