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Started By
Message
re: 2018 NFL Draft: Final quick-snap grades for all 32 teams
Posted on 4/29/18 at 8:41 am to windshieldman
Posted on 4/29/18 at 8:41 am to windshieldman
quote:
I don't think once we got out of the 10th pick there were any QBs worth getting to hope to build our future on.
i agree, to some point, with this... i absolutely did NOT want Jackson, so i'm glad we dodged that bullet, but there's no way to know if White, Lauletta, etc, wouldn't be able to become something worth having... they don't have to be Brees... they just gotta be better than Taysom Hill, who Payton says is the heir apparent, while about to turn 28 or 29 soon...
quote:
definitely don't wanna reach for one.
why not? we reached for a back up OT... QB isn't worth as much as back up OT?
quote:
I can't think of the name but I believe Saints were gonna pick a QB last year that the team before them got, then Saints went with Lattimore.
Mahomes... and that's the rumor... may be they were, may be they weren't... either way, we didn't get a QB at all, didn't this year, and now, we don't have a 1st next year to even entertain the idea... so, yeah...
look, i'm not saying the sky is falling... what i'm saying is that we are cutting our margin of error, at the most important position on the field...
This post was edited on 4/29/18 at 8:42 am
2
Posted on 4/29/18 at 8:44 am to windshieldman
quote:
There were way more positions of need for the Saints before last year draft than OT and RB.
CB and pass rusher... we got a CB with our 1st pick last year and we eventually got around to the pass rusher... this year
Posted on 4/29/18 at 8:45 am to djmicrobe
NFL and ESPN have successfully turned the draft into another game, focused on who won and who lost. Thing is, it’s not. A hundred years from now the final score of our playoff game in Minny will still be 29-24. But every team’s Draft will look better or worse than the experts’ opinions as time goes on. He’ll that’s why they do a re-draft every year based on how players developed. I don’t worry too much about grades it doesn’t mean nearly as much as ESPN wishes it did.
Posted on 4/29/18 at 8:45 am to chRxis
quote:
why not? we reached for a back up OT... QB isn't worth as much as back up OT?
They reached in the 4th round. I'd rather the Saints not fool with trying to get Brees replacement in the 4th round. I wouldn't want them reaching in the 1st or 2nd either. I don't know anything about that T they got, so I don't know if it's a reach or not. I don't think draft analysts know shite past 2nd or 3rd round anyways, so don't care for draft boards past those rounds. I do agree there were probably better picks on board though than Leonard, but we will see.
quote:
Mahomes... and that's the rumor... may be they were, may be they weren't
I'm pretty sure Payton himself said they would have, but maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
Posted on 4/29/18 at 8:50 am to chRxis
quote:
CB and pass rusher... we got a CB with our 1st pick last year and we eventually got around to the pass rusher... this year
Even before last draft I'd say CB, Dline like you said, LB, I was hoping even then for a QB to groom, WR even with Ginn brought in, and TE.
At the time, RB I just didn't see as a must have, I"m glad obviously we got Kamara. But with Ingram, AP supposedly was looking good from his workouts, and Lasco still had some decent hopes as a 3rd RB. Not saying it was all perfect but not a must have, again glad we did.
Regarding T, we had Armstead, Strief who just came off his best season and Peat who could swing out with decent depth on the interior. The depth wasn't great at T, but it wasn't a must have. Again, glad we got a T, it panned out perfectly. I'm just speaking of going into the draft, Saints drafted BPA, not need.
This post was edited on 4/29/18 at 8:52 am
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:04 am to windshieldman
quote:
I'd rather the Saints not fool with trying to get Brees replacement in the 4th round
why not? forget Brady, he's the outlier, obviously... but there's a mixed bag in every round, if you look at the history, when taking a QB... some guys can play, some can't... 1st rounders that everyone was high on don't pan out, and lower round guys that no one really thought much of turn into superstars...
the highest paid QB in the league comes out of the 4th round, and had we had the opportunity to get him to replace Brees, everyone would have jumped on it...
EVENTUALLY we gotta replace Brees... either draft, trade, or FA... regardless of what round that guy is drafted in...
This post was edited on 4/29/18 at 9:07 am
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:11 am to chRxis
quote:
EVENTUALLY we gotta replace Brees... either draft, trade, or FA... regardless of what round that guy is drafted in..
Yeah, also it will be interesting to see offseason moves prior to next year draft. We could trade a player or 2 and acquire picks for 2019. There is nothing saying we won't trade up in the 1st round next year depending on if we accrue more picks. Not sure we could have enough to trade up high in the 1st though, and supposedly the QB talent isn't great next year but honestly nobody knows yet how next year QB class will be.
This post was edited on 4/29/18 at 9:12 am
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:14 am to drizztiger
quote:
While they will admit now that there are 4 deal-breaker elite positions: QB, EDGE, CB, LT, that are worth the price...
Hell if you look at FA the last 10 or so years you can find decent to high end QBs, top CBs, and decent to high end LTs and every now and then a top LT.
The one thing you can pretty much never find is a more than decent pass rusher, especially talking DE. These frickers get franchised or extended every single time.
3 years in a row we waited for one to hit the market or fall in the draft and nada. It wasn't going to be 4 years.
This post was edited on 4/29/18 at 9:16 am
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:17 am to windshieldman
quote:
We could trade a player or 2 and acquire picks for 2019.
which pieces would you be okay with getting rid of? i like the team we are assembling, especially on D
quote:
There is nothing saying we won't trade up in the 1st round next year depending on if we accrue more picks
this isn't Madden... it's not as easy as just "accrue picks, then trade those picks for a 1st"... a 1st round pick is like gold... that's why the Saints got criticized for trading theirs...
quote:
supposedly the QB talent isn't great next year
it's like 2013 bad... like really bad...
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:22 am to chRxis
quote:
which pieces would you be okay with getting rid of? i like the team we are assembling, especially on D
Oh I have no idea, I don't feel like looking up all the players contract statuses and it would depend how the season plays out. We might could possibly trade a LB or S, maybe even a CB. I'd rather not, but who knows.
quote:
this isn't Madden... it's not as easy as just "accrue picks, then trade those picks for a 1st"... a 1st round pick is like gold... that's why the Saints got criticized for trading theirs...
Yeah I know that, but it's possible if we accrue some picks we might could trade into the 1st. If we are picking late 2nd round, then yea it would be difficult. Might be us trading up high into the 2nd, I have no idea how deep next year draft is gonna be, this past draft was not deep at all.
quote:
it's like 2013 bad... like really bad...
I'll take your word for it, I have no idea, I'd rather the football season play out first.
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:22 am to chRxis
quote:
Mahomes... and that's the rumor... may be they were, may be they weren't... either way, we didn't get a QB at all, didn't this year, and now, we don't have a 1st next year to even entertain the idea... so, yeah...
No rumor. Payton straight up said we were taking Mahomes if he was there and Lattimore wasn't.
Then he said this year NONE of these QBs were rated as high as Mahomes, meaning he wasn't considering any in the top 10 (and the best ones were gone by 10). Maybe if one of those 4 fell to 15 things could have gone differently but that didn't happen.
And Payton isn't going the Grayson route again. Next time he takes a QB it will be one he feels is a surefire bet. He ain't wasting 3rd or 4th rounders on projects (which he kind of admitted about Grayson).
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:24 am to chRxis
Using this board's own internal logic, which said that it would be OK to trade an entire draft to move up for one of the big 4 QBs "if the front office thought they were the answer for the next 10 years", then it follows that we should be fine with them NOT drafting someone in the 3rd or 4th if they DIDN'T think they were the answer for the next 10 years.
In general, I think posters on this board are way too worried about what our record will look like the first season without Brees. Nothing would make me happier than to seamlessly move on with another great QB, but we all need to be honest with ourselves, the chances of that are very slim. IT's much more likely that we are going to have to endure a shitty season or two so that we can get into position to grab one of those top 2 or 3 guys without having to trade an entire draft to do it,.
In general, I think posters on this board are way too worried about what our record will look like the first season without Brees. Nothing would make me happier than to seamlessly move on with another great QB, but we all need to be honest with ourselves, the chances of that are very slim. IT's much more likely that we are going to have to endure a shitty season or two so that we can get into position to grab one of those top 2 or 3 guys without having to trade an entire draft to do it,.
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:25 am to chRxis
quote:
it's like 2013 bad... like really bad.
Holy frick, I went and looked it up, that was an awful class for QBs, pretty damn good Oline draft though.
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:29 am to windshieldman
I think CB Jamerson will be bad arse, especially coming off the edge blitzing at times. The Moore and Leonard kid I really know nothing about, the Leonard guy was a reach at where the Saints picked him IMO. I believe we could have gotten him with one of our 6 picks instead of using a 4th. WR Smith & Davenport will be stars this year. Overall B+ for me.
This post was edited on 4/29/18 at 9:31 am
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:30 am to chRxis
quote:
which pieces would you be okay with getting rid of?
Not that I think we need to get a 1st next year because everyone is discounting Brees could resign for another 2 years if he's still playing well, but....
Armstead. He's aging, expensive, and always hurt. If he can still healthy and fetch us a second rounder I'd do it.
Both Peat and Ram can play LT, and if our 4th rounder can become a good RT then shifting Ram is a no brainer. If not kick Peat out and see if Clapp or Tom can play guard or go draft one.
We have a lot of guys coming up we'll need to pay, and we can't afford to hang on to an expensive, always hurt, aging LT.
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:40 am to LesnarF5
quote:
Leonard guy was a reach at where the Saints picked him IMO.
The fact is we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. The teams have a LOT more info than us or the media.
When we "reached" for Hicks, while not with us, that turned out to be a good third rounder.
People thought we reached for Onyemata, but it came out that his agent (iirc) called us and said GB was about to take him. Without that nugget people still would be wondering why we traded up, even though he's turning out to be a pretty good player.
We have no idea what intel they may have had on Leonard. They obviously had him graded high enough to take in the 4th, and it only takes ONE other team feeling the same to frick up your plans.
The media is FARRRRRR from perfect with their "grades". The teams aren't perfect either, but they at least have a shite ton more info to work with than the media.
The only thing that matters is whether the pick pans out. As a 4th rounder the expectation is he'll be an eventual starter (since Oline doesn't rotate). So they saw something about him that makes them feel in year 2 or 3 he may be starting.
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:48 am to tigersbb
quote:
Don't get the stnce tht trading up for Davenport lowers teh Waints draft grade. The quality of the player an impact on improving the team is all taht matters regardless of where he was picked. What they gave up fo rhim is irrelevant this year. If Davenport was an A grade if chosen by the Saints or anyone else at a lower sport then he is an A grade today.
I’m always fascinated with people who are big saints fans with a primary language other than English.
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:51 am to Mad Dogg
No no no no yes yes.
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:52 am to bonethug0108
quote:
he only thing that matters is whether the pick pans out
Agreed, and imo he is strictly a RT. I don't see him as someone who can play on the left side but then again he may be a future HOF LT
He seems to be a guy who can already run block well. Hopefully he can sit and develop and not be forced in his rookie year except maybe jumbo packages. Just like we see with many of these players, give them a year, 2, or 3, and it's amazing watching them develop and turn into legit players. Our DTs are all doing just that every year, getting better and better. I hope Rankins can have a breakout year, and with Okafor and Davenport, maybe he won't be double teamed as much. More pressing is, if Davison can keep improving, for a NT, teams weren't having to double him as much on run downs as you'd like to see, they were still doubling up on Rankins.
Posted on 4/29/18 at 9:57 am to djmicrobe
quote:
The Saints failed to hit multiple needs, however, including a developmental quarterback
Never listed as a need. It was a want but Payton said no QB in this draft was grading as good as Mahomes, yet the 4 best ones went top 10. Can't force something that isn't there.
quote:
defensive tackle
This was NEVER mentioned as a need and Payton straight up said that the pursuit of Suh wasn't because they had a need a DT.
He's freaking Suh and if you listen to Payton and look at what Suh does, we mainly went after him because he can rush the passer and is a top tier DT.
We have 4 DTs, 3 of which are starters (though Davison lost ground to Onyemata). They like all 4 of those guys a lot, especially Rankins and Onyemata.
This "need a DT" spiel needs to end. It never once came out of Payton's mouth and he has been honest to a fault with this stuff around draft time.
quote:
linebacker, and tight end
These fall into the same category. Starters and enough depth, but both could be upgraded if the right player fell.
For LB we choose to go Davenport over Edmunds. Pass rusher was a must 4 years running. It's a no brainer it should have won out.
For TE, if we had a second (which we used on Kamara) we could have traded up a bit for Goedert. Once he went there was no one left that was starting over Watson or Fleener (if he's healthy).
So we missed on 2 needs because we didn't have enough picks, but the good news is we have starters and backups at those 2 needs, so they were more soft needs than something like Oline, which lacked depth.
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