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re: Zach Lowe discusses the Pelicans draft night at length
Posted on 6/27/25 at 6:59 am to tzimme4
Posted on 6/27/25 at 6:59 am to tzimme4
No. Let's be real. Dumars had Fears and Queen as the #5 and 6 guys on our draft board. The Pels front office supposedly went into the day thinking that Fears would be gone and that we would draft Queen at #7. When Fears fell to us at #7, we took him and then started working on getting Queen.
No one above Atlanta at #13 wanted the deal -- that's obvious. If the deal is so terrible for us and so great for Atlanta, then why are the national media not mocking Chicago for refusing it one pick earlier?
Posters here should be honest about what they are criticizing, instead of pretending about spreadsheets and expected value. If Derik Queen is one of the top six players in this year's draft, then we made an excellent trade to go get him. If he's not, then it's terrible.
We obviously had Queen much higher on our board than the rest of the league did. So the real question is whether our scouting and player evaluation is really good, or whether it is really bad. That's what this is about -- not the supposed paper value of giving up next year's pick to move up 10 spots.
No one above Atlanta at #13 wanted the deal -- that's obvious. If the deal is so terrible for us and so great for Atlanta, then why are the national media not mocking Chicago for refusing it one pick earlier?
Posters here should be honest about what they are criticizing, instead of pretending about spreadsheets and expected value. If Derik Queen is one of the top six players in this year's draft, then we made an excellent trade to go get him. If he's not, then it's terrible.
We obviously had Queen much higher on our board than the rest of the league did. So the real question is whether our scouting and player evaluation is really good, or whether it is really bad. That's what this is about -- not the supposed paper value of giving up next year's pick to move up 10 spots.
3
Posted on 6/27/25 at 7:13 am to GOP_Tiger
fears and queen were both consistently mocked in the top 5-10, fears first then queen. It is disingenuous to say “the pels traded a possible top 5 pick to take a guy they wouldn’t take at 7”…
had fears not been there at 7 I have no doubt they’d have taken queen, that seems obvious. So maybe look at it this way…they traded next years pick for fears. Either way they got both players and it did absolutely cost them one additional pick to do it in the same draft
now we will find out if they are geniuses or idiots (or more likely, somewhere in the middle like everyone else)
had fears not been there at 7 I have no doubt they’d have taken queen, that seems obvious. So maybe look at it this way…they traded next years pick for fears. Either way they got both players and it did absolutely cost them one additional pick to do it in the same draft
now we will find out if they are geniuses or idiots (or more likely, somewhere in the middle like everyone else)
Posted on 6/27/25 at 7:22 am to cgrand
Posted on 6/27/25 at 7:38 am to GOP_Tiger
Posted on 6/27/25 at 7:53 am to GOP_Tiger
Cope more
Posted on 6/27/25 at 8:05 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Dude you're clueless you have to realize players like olynk in those trades are needed and not just throw ins
Yup needed to match salaries. Answer the question. What is Olynk worth as an expiring on the open market. A 34 year old journeyman big man?
We know first hand what an expiring 20+ ppg scoring wing in his prime was worth on the market. But I’m clueless lol.
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 8:17 am
Posted on 6/27/25 at 8:07 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
Yup needed to match salaries.
And we wouldn't have been able to include him unless he was apart of what deal?
This isn't about his value, its about what ingram netted us. Like it or not Poole is apart of that equation, as is Olynk
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 8:11 am
Posted on 6/27/25 at 8:22 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
This isn't about his value, its about what ingram netted us. Like it or not Poole is apart of that equation, as is Olynk
Avoiding the answer again I see. You thought I was incorrect when I pointed out everything we have given up for Murray and Queen, but now you realize I was right, so you hanging on to this but we got Olynk and that’s the only way we were getting Poole bs narrative.
It’s laughable. CJ was the sole reason we got Poole. Wiz didn’t want the financial commitment next year. We wanted Bey. It’s why olynk was included, and why they had to throw in a high 2nd on top of it.
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 8:24 am
Posted on 6/27/25 at 8:27 am to Townedrunkard
neither one of you is making this thread more entertaining to read
Posted on 6/27/25 at 8:28 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
Avoiding the answer again I see. You thought I was incorrect when I pointed out everything we have given up for Murray and Queen, but now you realize I was right, so you hanging on to this but we got Olynk and that’s the only way we were getting Poole bs narrative
You keep changing the argument lol.
You said ingram needed us x, I said he netted us x plus y (poole) in addition to other pieces.
We're gonna act like ingram is some massive piece when we all knew his value was going to be low at the time Griff made the move, yet you're being disingenuous by subtracting actual players from the surrounding deals from the ingram trade.
quote:
It’s laughable
Yeah, your argument is laughable.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 8:43 am to cgrand
quote:
neither one of you is making this thread more entertaining to read
Yeah Ill stop.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 8:51 am to PELsu
I just seen an article where it said they won a “measly 21 games”
The fact they see that as the team is bad and that the players simply don’t play is absolutely insane to me.
The fact they see that as the team is bad and that the players simply don’t play is absolutely insane to me.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 8:52 am to Fun Bunch
Thats how missing 5 of your top players majority of a season works buddy
Posted on 6/27/25 at 9:02 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
No one above Atlanta at #13 wanted the deal -- that's obvious. If the deal is so terrible for us and so great for Atlanta, then why are the national media not mocking Chicago for refusing it one pick earlier?
Excellent point.
Dumars is being clowned because the talking heads need "winners" and "losers" to talk about and drive clicks, etc. I admit that my initial reaction was similar. But the thinking behind it makes sense, especially knowing that all those teams turned down the deal.
I think the Pels fans that are ripping the trade are being selfish. It is FUN to have a chance at winning the lottery. It is FUN to go to Tankathon and spin the wheel. Dumars took away our hope for the next "generational talent" or whatever. But there's no guarantees that the Pelicans or the Bucks will be bad. And even if one of those teams make it to the lottery, there's no guarantees that the pick will jump into the top 4.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 9:02 am to tzimme4
quote:
Cope more
I'm not coping. I think the decision to trade up to get him was probably bad, likely very bad. But if so, it's bad because Derik Queen isn't the sixth-best prospect in this draft, not because of the cost of moving up 10 spots.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 9:22 am to GOP_Tiger
Finally. Hollinger in The Athletic today:
quote:
Did Portland prefer the deal they already had with Memphis? Did Chicago’s phones work? I have questions.
Often in the NBA, it’s about the deals you didn’t do — I could give you countless examples from seven years in Memphis. In that vein, it seems there might be some undone deals for a few teams to think about between now and when Atlanta makes that pick in 2026.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 9:22 am to New City Champ
quote:
Right, a way to look at the deal in context is where would Queen have been ranked in next year's class if he went back to Maryland and came out as a sophomore? Conservatively, top 10.
Why do you think this is a good estimate of where he’d be drafted next year? Everyone’s saying next years class is better than this one and he wasn’t a top ten pick in this class…
Posted on 6/27/25 at 9:29 am to AOC4PREZ2028
quote:
I think the Pels fans that are ripping the trade are being selfish. It is FUN to have a chance at winning the lottery. It is FUN to go to Tankathon and spin the wheel. Dumars took away our hope for the next "generational talent" or whatever.
I think Griffin thought it was fun winning the lottery too. Pelicans fans don’t understand the NBA draft. It’s random. You have to increase your odds of getting a generational talent there or you’re never going to succeed. If you throw away one of your better chances, you’re basically giving yourself no shot.
Also I believe we’re going to be a bad team next year.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 9:32 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
You said ingram needed us x, I said he netted us x plus y (poole) in addition to other pieces.
He didn’t net us Poole. CJ netted us Poole. You are being disingenuous stating otherwise. And it’s laughable to think otherwise.
Olynk was such a big trade piece we shipped him off after wearing our uniform a couple months. That’s the definition of just a contract
Still never answered the question, what’s Olynks market value if he was such a big trade piece?
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 9:34 am
Posted on 6/27/25 at 9:43 am to PELsu
Funny, the more people that weigh in to
say the trade was dumb, the more I believe it will turn out okay. By that I mean we have a 6’10” athletic guy who
helps us down low… and maybe can hit
a 3 at a decent rate… what I don’t know is who will be available with the future pick we traded…
say the trade was dumb, the more I believe it will turn out okay. By that I mean we have a 6’10” athletic guy who
helps us down low… and maybe can hit
a 3 at a decent rate… what I don’t know is who will be available with the future pick we traded…
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