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re: Watching college prospects thread
Posted on 3/20/16 at 9:36 pm to 504ByrdGang
Posted on 3/20/16 at 9:36 pm to 504ByrdGang
Heild would be worthy of a number 6 or 7 pick. That's if Simmons, Ingram, Dunn, Bender and Murray are gone. They probably will be
1
Posted on 3/20/16 at 9:37 pm to NOLA Bronco
Jimmer was a ball dominant guard who was pretty much playing 1 on 5 in college. He couldn't play off ball in the league or run offensive sets effectively.
He's also couldn't shoot well off ball. There's been countless articles saying that he's having problems playing role based basketball vs unorganized ball like he's used to.
You look at Hield and the game today and you cannot say that he cannot score in the league. He doesn't need much space to get the shot off and he is extremely quick off the release.
The guy scored 29 of his 36 points in the second half and 19 of those point in the last 8 minutes when the game got extremely competitive. That is impressive.
He's also couldn't shoot well off ball. There's been countless articles saying that he's having problems playing role based basketball vs unorganized ball like he's used to.
You look at Hield and the game today and you cannot say that he cannot score in the league. He doesn't need much space to get the shot off and he is extremely quick off the release.
The guy scored 29 of his 36 points in the second half and 19 of those point in the last 8 minutes when the game got extremely competitive. That is impressive.
Posted on 3/20/16 at 9:47 pm to TigerBehindEnemyLines
I agree with that but you know how I feel about my guy I think he's to versatile and too athletic of a player in the most needed position on this team. Out side of them I would be ok with the Heild pick. He's a low floor guy and if he improves his dribble he could be a star but when I mean improve I mean make elite.
Posted on 3/20/16 at 9:50 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
Jimmer was a ball dominant guard who was pretty much playing 1 on 5 in college. He couldn't play off ball in the league or run offensive sets effectively.
He's also couldn't shoot well off ball. There's been countless articles saying that he's having problems playing role based basketball vs unorganized ball like he's used to.
You look at Hield and the game today and you cannot say that he cannot score in the league. He doesn't need much space to get the shot off and he is extremely quick off the release.
The guy scored 29 of his 36 points in the second half and 19 of those point in the last 8 minutes when the game got extremely competitive. That is impressive.
Everyone speaks about his shooting, which is elite, but he has also improved inside the arc. He finishes well around the rim, with both hands, he has that slick euro step Harden uses occasionally like here:
LINK
Though Hield likes to throw in a dribble crossover unlike Harden.
He has a much improved floater, good penetration moves, he is great in transition and a good decision maker. He just has that Curry like quickness with getting his shot off and such accuracy that he can shoot threes like they are lay ups. So why wouldn't he?
This post was edited on 3/20/16 at 9:52 pm
Posted on 3/20/16 at 9:53 pm to NOLA Bronco
quote:
Everyone speaks about his shooting, which is elite, but he has also improved inside the arc. He finishes well around the rim, with both hands, he has that slick euro step Harden uses occasionally like here:
LINK
He has a much improved floater, good penetration moves, he is great in transition and a good decision maker. He just has that Curry like quickness with getting his shot off and such accuracy that he can shoot threes like they are lay ups. So why wouldn't he?
and that's the part of him game people feel won't translate if they did he would be a top 3 pick. He improved at getting to the rim because he uses his size to bully college guys but at 6'4 210 you won't do that to NBA defenders, you need either quickness, explosiveness, good size, or great ball handling. If it does this guy will be a stud. Harden is probably nearly as strong as Reke with similar builds but is much more explosive with great handles makes him so elite at getting to the rim.
This post was edited on 3/20/16 at 9:55 pm
Posted on 3/20/16 at 9:59 pm to NOLA Bronco
Wasn't comparing them as players. Just reminding people scoring in college doesn't mean you can score in the league.
All the stuff everyone lauds Heild for is exactly what you have to question translating into the NBA. His shot has to get off quicker, he's now got longer, more athletic guys contesting shots. Getting into the lane? We will see. He def has some skills that will make him a rotational player at worst, I'm just not sure he's gonna step in a NBA lineup and be a lights out scorer
I don't know what the league average is for shooting guards, but there are some long, athletic ones out there. Considerably bigger than buddy
All the stuff everyone lauds Heild for is exactly what you have to question translating into the NBA. His shot has to get off quicker, he's now got longer, more athletic guys contesting shots. Getting into the lane? We will see. He def has some skills that will make him a rotational player at worst, I'm just not sure he's gonna step in a NBA lineup and be a lights out scorer
I don't know what the league average is for shooting guards, but there are some long, athletic ones out there. Considerably bigger than buddy
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:00 pm to hendersonshands
Yield 4 Hield
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:00 pm to chesty
Now Hield is getting Jimmer comparisons. Laughable.
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:05 pm to GynoSandberg
Come on man, Hield has some of the quickest release I've seen and that includes NBA players.
This post was edited on 3/20/16 at 10:06 pm
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:06 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
You look at Hield and the game today and you cannot say that he cannot score in the league. He doesn't need much space to get the shot off and he is extremely quick off the release.
Exactly. there are a bunch of crafty scorers in the NBA that arent super athletic. The dude doesnt have to be DWade to be an effective scorer.
I think its pretty silly to compare him to Jimmer though. That is quite extreme.
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:14 pm to supe12sta12z
He does have a quick release. I can't say if it will translate without seeing it.
I'll still think Heild will be a nice value pick in our range and won't mind having him. Like him more than Murray
I'll still think Heild will be a nice value pick in our range and won't mind having him. Like him more than Murray
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:14 pm to 504ByrdGang
quote:
and that's the part of him game people feel won't translate if they did he would be a top 3 pick. He improved at getting to the rim because he uses his size to bully college guys but at 6'4 210 you won't do that to NBA defenders, you need either quickness, explosiveness, good size, or great ball handling. If it does this guy will be a stud. Harden is probably nearly as strong as Reke with similar builds but is much more explosive with great handles makes him so elite at getting to the rim.
When you say bully I don't know what you mean. He doesnt go all Tyreke Evans on people much any more, he is much more finesse. Splitting screens with the dribble, crossovers, eurosteps, stretch layups, up and unders, improved spin moves. Can now finish with either hand and does well driving with his off hand.
His pull up game is sick, Curry esque. He has a fairly tight dribble, great at change of direction and change of speed to gain separation and with a fairly quick shot release and his much improved accuracy off the dribble, he is deadly in that role.
There is a reason scouts call him the best scorer in college basketball and not just the best shooter.
This post was edited on 3/20/16 at 10:22 pm
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:19 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Exactly. there are a bunch of crafty scorers in the NBA that arent super athletic. The dude doesnt have to be DWade to be an effective scorer.
I think its pretty silly to compare him to Jimmer though. That is quite extreme.
Yeah and one of them is about to win his second MVP. Curry was never considered a player that could run you out of the gym with his athleticism. In fact it was a knock of his coming out of college. The combine crown was given to Jonny Flynn that draft(anyone remember him?) who was praised with having elite athleticism and quickness.
With the way the game is going, having a guy who is a deadeye three point shooter that can get his shot off bullet quick and shoot at a high efficiency off the dribble or spotting up is a premium player to have.
This post was edited on 3/20/16 at 10:21 pm
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:32 pm to NOLA Bronco
quote:
When you say bully I don't know what you mean. He doesnt go all Tyreke Evans on people much any more, he is much more finesse. Splitting screens with the dribble, crossovers, eurosteps, stretch layups, up and unders, improved spin moves. Can now finish with either hand and does well driving with his off hand.
His pull up game is sick, Curry esque. He has a fairly tight dribble, great at change of direction and change of speed to gain separation and with a fairly quick shot release and his much improved accuracy off the dribble, he is deadly in that role.
There is a reason scouts call him the best scorer in college basketball and not just the best shooter.
I think he's an athlete similar to Jrue with out the lateral quickness for defense. Jrue is a very good ball handler with crafty dribbles to create space and use his size as an advantages over most smaller guards. Heild isn't as good of a ball handler, isn't as craft with his dribble, and will play against bigger guys. That's what I mean he doesn't go full Tyreke running back mode. That's why I believe his scoring in the arch won't be a translatable in the pros.
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:34 pm to NOLA Bronco
quote:
Yeah and one of them is about to win his second MVP. Curry was never considered a player that could run you out of the gym with his athleticism. In fact it was a knock of his coming out of college. The combine crown was given to Jonny Flynn that draft(anyone remember him?) who was praised with having elite athleticism and quickness.
With the way the game is going, having a guy who is a deadeye three point shooter that can get his shot off bullet quick and shoot at a high efficiency off the dribble or spotting up is a premium player to have.
Curry has elite handles something he didn't have in college which was a knock on him. Curry has also always been extremely quick, he was knocked because he lack explosiveness.
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:40 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
I don't know what the league average is for shooting guards, but there are some long, athletic ones out there. Considerably bigger than buddy
The league average for shooting guards is:
Height: 6'5.5
Wingspan: 6'8.6
Hield:
Height: 6'4.5
Wingspan: 6'8.5
So he is literally right at the average.
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:50 pm to 504ByrdGang
quote:
I think he's an athlete similar to Jrue with out the lateral quickness for defense. Jrue is a very good ball handler with crafty dribbles to create space and use his size as an advantages over most smaller guards. Heild isn't as good of a ball handler, isn't as craft with his dribble, and will play against bigger guys. That's what I mean he doesn't go full Tyreke running back mode. That's why I believe his scoring in the arch won't be a translatable in the pros.
We have gone over the defense stuff. He has more then the baseline measurables needed to be an elite defender at the next level for his position. Whether that will happen or not is up for grabs. But nothing is holding him back besides effort, training, focus and further developing his defensive IQ and skill set. Claiming he lacks lateral quickness to be effective implies he is below the baseline needed to be effective, which he is not.
This is Coach Nick's breakdown from BBallbreakdwon, a generally great player and team analyst:
LINK
Hield is his own animal. He is elite off the pick and roll, elite off the ball, elite off screens, Very good at scoring near the rim, elite shooting, elite in the pull up game and creating separation. A good ball handler, has an array of finishing and driving moves. Play great with pace and in transition. About the only thing he isnt elite at is mid range jumpers, which he shies away from. But that is a positive in todays game and he himself has said that is intentional.
As Nick says, he can pretty much slip right into a number of NBA teams and be effective with his NBA range and skill set and success running an NBA style system. his ceiling is an all star with great leadership and his floor is a solid role player. That isnt a bad get for a team in desperate need of both young leadership and another solid contributor.
This post was edited on 3/20/16 at 10:54 pm
Posted on 3/20/16 at 10:59 pm to NOLA Bronco
quote:
We have gone over the defense stuff. He has more then the baseline measurables needed to be an elite defender at the next level for his position. Whether that will happen or not is up for grabs. But nothing is holding him back besides effort, training, focus and further developing his defensive IQ and skill set. Claiming he lacks lateral quickness to be effective implies he is below the baseline needed to be effective, which he is not.
This is Coach Nick's breakdown from BBallbreakdwon, a generally great player and team analyst:
LINK
Hield is his own animal. He is elite off the pick and roll, elite off the ball, elite off screens,elite at scoring near the rim, elite shooting, elite in the pull up game and creating separation. A good ball handler, has an array of finishing and driving moves. About the only thing he isnt elite at is mid range jumpers, which he shies away from. But that is a positive in todays game.
As Nick says, he can pretty much slip right into a number of NBA teams and be effective with his NBA range and skill set and success running an NBA style system. his ceiling is an all star with great leadership and his floor is a solid role player. That isnt a bad get for a team in desperate need of both young leadership and another solid contributor.
Ok, I never said he was bad defender. People will love the guy so go ahead. If you project him to be a 20 ppg score with good D I hope you're right and we grab him. If he's a role player that's just scorer and shooter I would pass because we need more than just more scorers on this team. If Simmions, Ingram, Brown, Dunn, Luwawu, and maybe Murray are off the board I'll be cool with the Heild pick. CJ currently avgs 20/5, Klay is a 20 ppg score and great defender same for Middleton both also decent rebounders, Derozan scores, passes, and rebounds, Harden and Butler do also. He's a scorer that's it, he can be a good defender but as of now that not something he's looked at for. He's not a shot creator, he's not a passer, and he not a rebounder. So I hope if we do choose him I hope he's a damn good scorer because that's all he can bring to the team with his current skill set. I think this fan base is setting a really low bar for the draft. I want to get a guy who can be a star in this leauge not someone who can just help. I've seen people on here complain so much on one dimensional players yet now they are clamoring for another one. i'm not saying Heild will be bad but I would just like to look for a player to add more than just shooting and scoring for this squad.
This post was edited on 3/20/16 at 11:15 pm
Posted on 3/20/16 at 11:22 pm to 504ByrdGang
Heild reminds me a lot of Jodie Meeks his senior year. I can see him being a better version of Meeks in the NBA.
Posted on 3/20/16 at 11:39 pm to 504ByrdGang
How are they alike? Can you go in depth
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