- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Traditional big man is officially dead. Gobert proves Adams unplayable
Posted on 6/19/21 at 1:26 pm to ghost2most
Posted on 6/19/21 at 1:26 pm to ghost2most
The problem is Goberts contract. If you're making 200m you should be able to punish guards like reggie Jackson on switches. A traditional big who cant score isn't worth that contract. Kinda crazy how useless he was last night.
Im fine with Adams or a Capela at 17m when Rudy is making 35m next year. At least you can bench them when things arent going well.
Im fine with Adams or a Capela at 17m when Rudy is making 35m next year. At least you can bench them when things arent going well.
1
Posted on 6/19/21 at 1:34 pm to ghost2most
The thing about Adams is that, if you watched him play in OKC, he contributed on offense. They ran plays for him. Now, of course, teams would foul him to prevent dunks and layups, because he's a poor free throw shooter, but OKC would play him at the beginning of quarters and run plays for him then to get the Thunder into the bonus early in each quarter, and they would especially run plays for him at the beginning of the game to get opposing starters in foul trouble.
I really wonder how much of Adams's "decline" this season was due to the combo of SVG misusing him and the lack of camp time (remember, we did only defensive work in our abbreviated camp). Our new coach might put him to better use.
I'm still not comfortable right now trading him and anointing Jaxson as the starter. Now, if Jaxson adds 10 pounds of muscle this offseason and significantly refines his ball handling and/or 3-pt shooting, then maybe he will be ready to start on day 1, but I don't think that we can take that risk today.
Though we could trade Adams and get another quality center for the MLE. That would be an option.
I really wonder how much of Adams's "decline" this season was due to the combo of SVG misusing him and the lack of camp time (remember, we did only defensive work in our abbreviated camp). Our new coach might put him to better use.
I'm still not comfortable right now trading him and anointing Jaxson as the starter. Now, if Jaxson adds 10 pounds of muscle this offseason and significantly refines his ball handling and/or 3-pt shooting, then maybe he will be ready to start on day 1, but I don't think that we can take that risk today.
Though we could trade Adams and get another quality center for the MLE. That would be an option.
Posted on 6/19/21 at 1:43 pm to OrganizedChaos
Embiid will be the last traditional center in this league. Thats bc he is somewhat not a traditional center in that he can shoot 3's and create lane openings for Ben to drive and kick.
Plus, he is decent at switching and guarding peremiter players.
Really, Im of the opinion like a few on this board that trading for Siakam is the way we need to go or like I said last year, Jeramie Grant.
The new 5 is a player who is likely 6'8-6'10, that can shoot 3's at a good clip (33%+) and more importantly, switch onto any peremiter player 2-5 and stay in front of PG's, only suscetible to the stepback 3 due to the physics of weight/momentum principles.
The league is getting to positionless basketball where the near future, you will just look for the prototype player that is a Ben Simmons, Lebron, Giannis, KD type player that can do it all plus shoot like any other player and the best team will be who has the most players that fit the above.
Any smaller player under 6'4 to make it in the League will have to be physically stronger than his body suggests and shoot damn near Curry/Lilliard like where they stretch the D to its limits.
Porzingis would be ideal to trade for but he is WAY to injury prone to take that risk in New Orleans bc we cant count on being able to sign solid vets, due to desirable location/market, to offset the lack of cap space from any Big 3 formation.
Target Siakam and Grant or both and put around Zion and Ingram. Thats the only way we have a chance to win a Chip in this era.
And this fact highlights the biggest blunder of Griff's tenure. Its not Adams or Bledsoe, its not realizing that you had that new age 5 type on the roster and could have had him for cheap... Christian Wood. Its ironic, bc we waived him for the 1st high draft pick who became a recognized exhibit of the extinguished, traditional 5, Jalil Okafor.
Being a small market team with such a small margin of error, Im not sure that due to that blunder, that we are not already doomed to not ultimately fail with Zion. Now, we have lost (Adams signing) and will have to lose more assests gained (getting rid of Bledsoe/Adams) to correct the problem and Im not confident Griff understands where the League is ultimately heading, with his recent draft pick of Kira and passing on Saadiq Bey, who is a player that will become the norm in less than 5 years. Just look at the heights and abilities of the top players in the 2021 draft and you readily see how accelerated the future is.
Plus, he is decent at switching and guarding peremiter players.
Really, Im of the opinion like a few on this board that trading for Siakam is the way we need to go or like I said last year, Jeramie Grant.
The new 5 is a player who is likely 6'8-6'10, that can shoot 3's at a good clip (33%+) and more importantly, switch onto any peremiter player 2-5 and stay in front of PG's, only suscetible to the stepback 3 due to the physics of weight/momentum principles.
The league is getting to positionless basketball where the near future, you will just look for the prototype player that is a Ben Simmons, Lebron, Giannis, KD type player that can do it all plus shoot like any other player and the best team will be who has the most players that fit the above.
Any smaller player under 6'4 to make it in the League will have to be physically stronger than his body suggests and shoot damn near Curry/Lilliard like where they stretch the D to its limits.
Porzingis would be ideal to trade for but he is WAY to injury prone to take that risk in New Orleans bc we cant count on being able to sign solid vets, due to desirable location/market, to offset the lack of cap space from any Big 3 formation.
Target Siakam and Grant or both and put around Zion and Ingram. Thats the only way we have a chance to win a Chip in this era.
And this fact highlights the biggest blunder of Griff's tenure. Its not Adams or Bledsoe, its not realizing that you had that new age 5 type on the roster and could have had him for cheap... Christian Wood. Its ironic, bc we waived him for the 1st high draft pick who became a recognized exhibit of the extinguished, traditional 5, Jalil Okafor.
Being a small market team with such a small margin of error, Im not sure that due to that blunder, that we are not already doomed to not ultimately fail with Zion. Now, we have lost (Adams signing) and will have to lose more assests gained (getting rid of Bledsoe/Adams) to correct the problem and Im not confident Griff understands where the League is ultimately heading, with his recent draft pick of Kira and passing on Saadiq Bey, who is a player that will become the norm in less than 5 years. Just look at the heights and abilities of the top players in the 2021 draft and you readily see how accelerated the future is.
This post was edited on 6/19/21 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 6/19/21 at 2:04 pm to irvchilichill1
Best plan for the Pels is to use the warchest this offseason.
1. Re sign Lonzo
2. Trade for Siakam/Grant (Use Bledsoe and/or Adams and 1st rounders)
3. Package 1st rounders with this year's Top 10, in this upcoming draft, to move into top 3-6, if we dont land in it after the lottery, and draft Mobley, Kuminga, one of the Jalens', Barnes, etc.
4. Target long, versatile defending FA's who hopefully can shoot the 3.
5. Sign 1 or 2, 3pt. shooters (Alec Burc, etc.) to offset 3pt. shooting needs, if you dont get it all in #4.
6. Griff, message me so you can send the consultant check to me. Lol.
1. Re sign Lonzo
2. Trade for Siakam/Grant (Use Bledsoe and/or Adams and 1st rounders)
3. Package 1st rounders with this year's Top 10, in this upcoming draft, to move into top 3-6, if we dont land in it after the lottery, and draft Mobley, Kuminga, one of the Jalens', Barnes, etc.
4. Target long, versatile defending FA's who hopefully can shoot the 3.
5. Sign 1 or 2, 3pt. shooters (Alec Burc, etc.) to offset 3pt. shooting needs, if you dont get it all in #4.
6. Griff, message me so you can send the consultant check to me. Lol.
This post was edited on 6/19/21 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 6/19/21 at 3:11 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:The defensive work they did in camp did absolutely nothing for them as they showed terrible defense during the season. But as I said earlier(I didn't go in much depth) Adams was really effective in OKC's system in which they ran pick and rolls, high screens that he maneuvered really well in and around the court in. When CP3 was there last season, they would run it brilliantly with Paul dishing to him when he came free from the screen for breakaway dunks. He would also get the ball and find open shooters hitting them with a pass for wide-open looks. Also, he'd get it down low on occasions when posting up or posting up a smaller player for easy baskets or even offensive put-backs.
I really wonder how much of Adams's "decline" this season was due to the combo of SVG and the lack of camp time(remember, we did only defensive work in our abbreviated camp). Our new coach might put him to better use.
I don't think it had anything to do with what Van Gundy ran defensively in pre-camp, but everything to do with the offense he played in in NOLA where he was just lost and out of sync, you could see it in that type of offense.
This post was edited on 6/19/21 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 6/19/21 at 3:23 pm to irvchilichill1
quote:
Re sign Lonzo
quote:
Trade for Siakam/Grant(Use Bledsoe and/or Adams and 1st rounders)
quote:They do need shooters, someone like a Bogdanovich would have been perfect for them last season, but Utah got him, and I agree with you about getting Siakam or Grant. But I wouldn't re-sign Ball, I don't think he wants to be there and I think he said something to that effect during the season. That he feels he can develop better somewhere else, him and his Laker teammate Hart, and Bledsoe, I'd trade all of them. Bledsoe played half-arse all season with 1 foot out of the door, you want people that wanna be there. I said during the season that fat Stan needed to play those youngsters that the Pels have at guard much more, the Kira kid and is it Alexander-Walker I think. Those kids have really good talent that just needs to be developed, Kira is a blur with the ball in his hands.
Sign 1 or 2, 3 pt. shooters (Alec Burc, etc.) to offset 3pt. shooting needs
This post was edited on 6/19/21 at 3:35 pm
Posted on 6/19/21 at 3:55 pm to tucoco
Gotta re-sign Ball to keep Ingram and Zion happy. Bring in Chauncey Billups to coach Ball on playing PG and developing ability to distribute ball to keep BI and Z happy. Plus, Chauncey knows what it takes to win without the traditional superstars on a team with his chip in Detroit.
If its not working with Lonzo then u can always trade Lonzo at some point and get what your lacking.
Paying Ball is not the problem. Its a problem bc of Bledsoe and Adams. That's where u begin to fix the dilemma.
Ball is perfect to run the team if you got what I suggested bc he is a key to us playing positionless basketball and he is a true PG. When Ball goes out then you can run Point Zion or have Ingram at Point Forward and they can do their thing at that time.
All of it can work bc it will force teams to have to prepare for a number of offensive options and sets we run with those 3 when playing "PG" bc all 3 are players of where the game is progressing to. AND WE HAVE THAT RIGHT NOW!!!
And that my friends is where positionless basketball will head on the offensive side. No need for PG's or Centers, bc your 2/3 stars will all be able to initiate and direct an offense with other shooters around those 3 and all the stars will basically be interchangeable 1-5 damn near.
The future is a team full of Scottie Pippens', Lebrons', KDs', Gianis', Siakams', with everyone capable of shooting exceptionally, defending any position, and initiating an offense bc they watched this generation and developed skills accordingly.
If its not working with Lonzo then u can always trade Lonzo at some point and get what your lacking.
Paying Ball is not the problem. Its a problem bc of Bledsoe and Adams. That's where u begin to fix the dilemma.
Ball is perfect to run the team if you got what I suggested bc he is a key to us playing positionless basketball and he is a true PG. When Ball goes out then you can run Point Zion or have Ingram at Point Forward and they can do their thing at that time.
All of it can work bc it will force teams to have to prepare for a number of offensive options and sets we run with those 3 when playing "PG" bc all 3 are players of where the game is progressing to. AND WE HAVE THAT RIGHT NOW!!!
And that my friends is where positionless basketball will head on the offensive side. No need for PG's or Centers, bc your 2/3 stars will all be able to initiate and direct an offense with other shooters around those 3 and all the stars will basically be interchangeable 1-5 damn near.
The future is a team full of Scottie Pippens', Lebrons', KDs', Gianis', Siakams', with everyone capable of shooting exceptionally, defending any position, and initiating an offense bc they watched this generation and developed skills accordingly.
This post was edited on 6/19/21 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 6/19/21 at 4:08 pm to irvchilichill1
Get taller, positionless and put a premium, whatever it takes cost, on targets on those who can shoot and/or develop their 3. That should be Griff's objective overall.
Small ball is a misread evolution of the game. Its not that smaller players are now 4/5's, but rather, Its that any big who is on the court is now being required to play, shoot and defend the perimeter just like any other position. And those who can't, like Gobert are being and will continue to be exposed.
So, while it seems right now that smaller players (6'6-6'9) are the ones filling this 'post player" role, its temporary, bc this next class coming in is the genesis of the future standard NBA player. 6'7+ and ball skills and physical traits that translate to being able to play almost every position. You may not be an ideal PG but you can play 2-5 (Mobley), you may not be an ideal 5 but you can play 1-4 (Cunningham).
Evolution of man is that he is getting taller. Its inevitable that players will be 7'0 with Curry-like ball skills in the very near future. The NBA will be full of Kevin Durants in the next 10-15 years and some idiot will wonder if Durant could play in that generation once its fully upon us.
Also, its inevitable the dimensions of the court will increase in width to account for the above as well.
Small ball is a misread evolution of the game. Its not that smaller players are now 4/5's, but rather, Its that any big who is on the court is now being required to play, shoot and defend the perimeter just like any other position. And those who can't, like Gobert are being and will continue to be exposed.
So, while it seems right now that smaller players (6'6-6'9) are the ones filling this 'post player" role, its temporary, bc this next class coming in is the genesis of the future standard NBA player. 6'7+ and ball skills and physical traits that translate to being able to play almost every position. You may not be an ideal PG but you can play 2-5 (Mobley), you may not be an ideal 5 but you can play 1-4 (Cunningham).
Evolution of man is that he is getting taller. Its inevitable that players will be 7'0 with Curry-like ball skills in the very near future. The NBA will be full of Kevin Durants in the next 10-15 years and some idiot will wonder if Durant could play in that generation once its fully upon us.
Also, its inevitable the dimensions of the court will increase in width to account for the above as well.
This post was edited on 6/19/21 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 6/20/21 at 3:38 pm to ghost2most
quote:
The league has evolved to the point that a traditional center is unplayable.
I don’t believe this is a situation where you can veer against the grain either because the 3 is such a statistical advantage.
The Clippers just put the final nail in the big C coffin.
Ayton would like a word with you....
Clippers are trying to run the same small ball at the Suns but it's not working because the Suns have size and athleticism on the perimeter and Ayton is punishing the Clippers for going small.
There is room for "quote" traditional bigs "quote" they just can't be defense-only unless they have Cappella like abilities to switch. That defense-only offensively limited center has to either be Gobert level, and even then it needs more to work, or you better be able to switch or punish teams offensively.
Posted on 6/20/21 at 3:42 pm to Bronc
Ayton isn't a traditional center.
He can shoot, move, and handle the ball some.
I get what you are saying. I think it's more about the players you put around the center.
To say you can't win with any center is just wrong.
That center needs to be able to do multiple things.
He can shoot, move, and handle the ball some.
I get what you are saying. I think it's more about the players you put around the center.
To say you can't win with any center is just wrong.
That center needs to be able to do multiple things.
Posted on 6/20/21 at 3:48 pm to Chalkywhite84
How much have you watched Ayton?
He took 86% of his shots within 10 feet.
He is very much in the mold of a traditional center. One of the few to come out in recent years that has the size and game that would feel home in 80's-00's basketball.
He can move for the mold but he is still susceptible to what Gobert just went through. Capella/AD he is definitely not.
But as you said, and I was saying, you need to be diversified in your skillsets. The day of the defense-only traditional center playing 82 games and 30+ minutes is basically dead.
He took 86% of his shots within 10 feet.
He is very much in the mold of a traditional center. One of the few to come out in recent years that has the size and game that would feel home in 80's-00's basketball.
He can move for the mold but he is still susceptible to what Gobert just went through. Capella/AD he is definitely not.
But as you said, and I was saying, you need to be diversified in your skillsets. The day of the defense-only traditional center playing 82 games and 30+ minutes is basically dead.
This post was edited on 6/20/21 at 3:50 pm
Posted on 6/20/21 at 3:57 pm to Bronc
Why are you putting Capella with ad?
Ayton can shoot. That is just how this phoenix team is built. He is going to hang out around the hoop and get easy buckets.
I don't think he is just like gobert
Ayton can shoot. That is just how this phoenix team is built. He is going to hang out around the hoop and get easy buckets.
I don't think he is just like gobert
Posted on 6/20/21 at 4:00 pm to Chalkywhite84
Because Capella and AD are able to switch out onto smaller players effectively.
If you lack that skill you simply can not be a defense-only big in today's game, at least not full time.
If you lack that skill you simply can not be a defense-only big in today's game, at least not full time.
Posted on 6/20/21 at 4:01 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
I don't think he is just like gobert
He is more offensively skilled and aggressive, but body type they are not all that dissimilar.
Posted on 6/20/21 at 4:12 pm to Bronc
Ayton is not traditional in the old school sense of a back-to-the basket, defend the paint, block shots center.
He is mobile, faces up, hits jumpers and most importantly, is not a liability in defending the perimeter. He can switch onto guards and defend decently to where they cant just iso and drive around him consistently. So, they usually settle for mid range jumpers/3pt shots which would happen on any versatile player.
Ayton's value is furthered in that he can make a team pay on the defensive end for going small bc he scores and rebounds, particularly offensive, at a considerable clip when taking advantage of the undersized defender.
He is mobile, faces up, hits jumpers and most importantly, is not a liability in defending the perimeter. He can switch onto guards and defend decently to where they cant just iso and drive around him consistently. So, they usually settle for mid range jumpers/3pt shots which would happen on any versatile player.
Ayton's value is furthered in that he can make a team pay on the defensive end for going small bc he scores and rebounds, particularly offensive, at a considerable clip when taking advantage of the undersized defender.
Posted on 6/20/21 at 4:25 pm to irvchilichill1
He is not super mobile. I’m not sure what some of you all claim to qualify as mobile? He can contain reasonably well, like Gobert, but he can be beaten pretty hard if you switch him onto shifty guards. Capella/AD he is absolutely not.
He has a relatively efficient mid range jumper he doesn’t use a ton, but that isn’t unique to this era. The vast, vast majority of his scoring comes within 6 feet of the basket.
If you want to get that technical and specific then there basically aren’t any all star traditional centers left since Embiid takes a healthy number of threes.
He has a relatively efficient mid range jumper he doesn’t use a ton, but that isn’t unique to this era. The vast, vast majority of his scoring comes within 6 feet of the basket.
If you want to get that technical and specific then there basically aren’t any all star traditional centers left since Embiid takes a healthy number of threes.
Posted on 6/20/21 at 5:47 pm to Bronc
Steven Adam’s was not even top 10 on the list of things that went wrong this season 
Posted on 6/20/21 at 6:52 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
Adams isn't an issue, its his contract.
Posted on 6/20/21 at 6:53 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
Steven Adam’s was not even top 10 on the list of things that went wrong this season
If you factor in opportunity cost, he certainly was.
Posted on 6/20/21 at 9:34 pm to Bronc
I don't agree.
Ayton has way more pop and athleticism.
Ayton has way more pop and athleticism.
Page 2 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News