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Started By
Message
The Pelicans will NOT be an apron team.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 8:36 am
Posted on 6/27/24 at 8:36 am
You don't have to believe me, Griff said that.
16:40 to 17:00
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2
Posted on 6/27/24 at 8:43 am to 50_Tiger
What's bad about that? He didn't say we won't be a luxury tax team.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 8:51 am to Mickey Goldmill
My first instinct is to call you a moron but frick it lets teach the meaning behind that statement.
Title contention is not a goal.
Below quote is Lux Tax Paid for the last 20 NBA Champions
Denver Paid and obv we all know how deep the Celtics are into the tax.
The bottom line is, unless you have the greatest shooting duo of all time pre max or Tim and Pop, you need to be a lux tax apron team to win a championship.
Title contention is not a goal.
Below quote is Lux Tax Paid for the last 20 NBA Champions
quote:
2002/03 (San Antonio Spurs): $187,000 (16th highest tax amount paid of 16 taxpaying teams)
2003/04 (Detroit Pistons): $756,627 (12th of 12)
2005/06 (Miami Heat): $0
2006/07 (San Antonio Spurs): $196,082 (5th of 5)
2007/08 (Boston Celtics): $8,218,368 (6th of 8)
2008/09 (L.A. Lakers): $7,185,631 (5th of 7)
2009/10 (L.A. Lakers): $21,430,778 (1st of 11)
2010/11 (Dallas Mavericks): $18,917,836 (3rd of 7)
2011/12 (Miami Heat): $6,129,340 (3rd of 6)
2012/13 (Miami Heat): $13,346,242 (2nd of 6)
2013/14 (San Antonio Spurs): $0
2014/15 (Golden State Warriors): $0
2015/16 (Cleveland Cavaliers): $54,009,724 (1st of 7)
2016/17 (Golden State Warriors): $0
2017/18 (Golden State Warriors): $32,263,299 (2nd of 4)
2018/19 (Toronto Raptors): $25,190,963 (3rd of 5)
2019/20 (L.A. Lakers): $0
2020/21 (Milwaukee Bucks): $794,721 (7th of 7)
2021/22 (Golden State Warriors): $170,331,194 (1st of 7)
Denver Paid and obv we all know how deep the Celtics are into the tax.
The bottom line is, unless you have the greatest shooting duo of all time pre max or Tim and Pop, you need to be a lux tax apron team to win a championship.
This post was edited on 6/27/24 at 8:53 am
Posted on 6/27/24 at 8:52 am to Mickey Goldmill
Yeah, I don't think anyone ever assumed they would be. What is concerning though is the "you have to be right". What does that mean, WCF? Finals? Champs? Enough playoff revenue and merch sales to cover the tax bills and lost tax refund revenue?
I've laid out many times why the current and near future economics of the league give teams no excuse to not at least dabble in the tax. "you have to be right" seems like a ridiculously high standard if winning is one of the goals of the organization. Maybe it's not "you" have to be right but Griff has to be right because he's out of second chances?
People rip into Mrs. Benson all the time as if she's the one setting this direction. And maybe she is, but I suspect Lauscha is the one that seems to be prioritizing maximizing profits over maximizing winning while still being profitable.
I've laid out many times why the current and near future economics of the league give teams no excuse to not at least dabble in the tax. "you have to be right" seems like a ridiculously high standard if winning is one of the goals of the organization. Maybe it's not "you" have to be right but Griff has to be right because he's out of second chances?
People rip into Mrs. Benson all the time as if she's the one setting this direction. And maybe she is, but I suspect Lauscha is the one that seems to be prioritizing maximizing profits over maximizing winning while still being profitable.
This post was edited on 6/27/24 at 8:53 am
Posted on 6/27/24 at 8:53 am to Mickey Goldmill
Seeing the landscape of the league right now and the current construction of the team, it'll be very difficult to try to contend without the willingness to go into the apron at some point.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 8:58 am to 50_Tiger
With the new restrictions in the CBA, you can be a luxury tax team and be relatively fine. Going past the 1st or 2nd apron though is going to be a no go for the overwhelming majority of franchises.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 8:59 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
With the new restrictions in the CBA, you can be a luxury tax team and be relatively fine. Going past the 1st or 2nd apron though is going to be a no go for the overwhelming majority of franchises.
X for doubt.
over a 20 year period the CBA has changed 3 times. I don't expect this to be a hindrance as many folks claim it to be.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:02 am to 50_Tiger
We've never even paid the tax before. He didn't rule that out though. He simply ruled out being an apron team. The difference between being a luxury tax team and an apron team is like $7M in payroll. This isn't a huge deal.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:03 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
We've never even paid the tax before. He didn't rule that out though. He simply ruled out being an apron team. The difference between being a luxury tax team and an apron team is like $7M in payroll. This isn't a huge deal.
7M probably doesnt afford Naji Marshall
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:05 am to 50_Tiger
Tax team and apron team is different.
Once you get into those aprons thats where all the restrictions start
Once you get into those aprons thats where all the restrictions start
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:07 am to Soggymoss
Yeah I don't think everyone realizes this.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:08 am to 50_Tiger
7 of those teams would have been apron teams under the new CBA
11 of them would not have been
You didn’t make the argument you think you made
11 of them would not have been
You didn’t make the argument you think you made
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:10 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
7M probably doesnt afford Naji Marshall
Now combine that 7 million with the 20 million we are under the tax currently and you have 27 million to play with before hitting the 1st apron
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:13 am to Soggymoss
quote:
Now combine that 7 million with the 20 million we are under the tax currently and you have 27 million to play with before hitting the 1st apron
No starting Center currently, BI still here so extension, Trey extension. etc.
Jose extension if hes still here.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:14 am to Soggymoss
I am not sure why people would be upset with the Pelicans not wanting to be an apron team. Small market team would need to be conference title contenders to even consider it.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:14 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
No starting Center currently, BI still here so extension, Trey extension. etc. Jose extension if hes still here.
None of those extensions have anything tk do with this year salary cap
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:15 am to Soggymoss
quote:
7 of those teams would have been apron teams under the new CBA
11 of them would not have been
You didn’t make the argument you think you made
No I think I clearly made the argument, you either have to find a generational talent or spend an innate amount of money to win a title.
We will clearly not do the latter, so you better hope Zion becomes the former.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:17 am to Soggymoss
quote:
None of those extensions have anything tk do with this year salary cap
Clearly this is a post about the current AND future.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:26 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
No I think I clearly made the argument, you either have to find a generational talent or spend an innate amount of money to win a title.
We will clearly not do the latter, so you better hope Zion becomes the former.
How often does any team, regardless of payroll, win a title without "generational talent" on their roster?
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:27 am to Soggymoss
I don’t think 50_Tiger really understands what Griff is saying.
First, There are reasons not to hit the first apron beyond just saving money/being frugal. The first apron affects your ability to
1) sign and trade
2) use trade exceptions
3) take back more salary in a trade
But even if we didn’t care about any of that, we are like 21 million from the 1st apron counting Missi’s cap with 13 players under some form of contract. Since we’re not a cap space team basically any transaction would require us to shed a decent amount of current salary if we wanted to add a meaningful upgrade.
We can easily make big moves without hitting the 1st apron in 2024-2025. Moving forward when Trey’s extension number of $25 to $30 million kicks in (God willing) the 1st apron becomes a much bigger decision point if CJ, Z, and BI/his replacement are all on the books at $30 million or more.
First, There are reasons not to hit the first apron beyond just saving money/being frugal. The first apron affects your ability to
1) sign and trade
2) use trade exceptions
3) take back more salary in a trade
But even if we didn’t care about any of that, we are like 21 million from the 1st apron counting Missi’s cap with 13 players under some form of contract. Since we’re not a cap space team basically any transaction would require us to shed a decent amount of current salary if we wanted to add a meaningful upgrade.
We can easily make big moves without hitting the 1st apron in 2024-2025. Moving forward when Trey’s extension number of $25 to $30 million kicks in (God willing) the 1st apron becomes a much bigger decision point if CJ, Z, and BI/his replacement are all on the books at $30 million or more.
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