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re: The Official Trade Proposal Thread
Posted on 5/29/24 at 1:41 pm to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 5/29/24 at 1:41 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:I agree here. Zion IS our best chance, but I just think the odds are incredibly low. And the odds without getting a legit #2(and #3 or Trey becomes the #3) are basically zero.
b/c we hvae to. He is the centerpiece to winning a championship. You have to build around that fact, and if you fail, you fail, but right now that's the path we are on.
quote:But the question or discussion was around this season. 25/5 Zion is not getting us close to beating OKC or DEN or DAL. We clearly need more top end talent that also fits with what we're doing.
We dont' need 40ppg Zion. We simply need 25ppg 5+ apg Zion that is capable of closing games out for us.
Our starting lineup just wasn't good enough to compete with those teams.
2
Posted on 5/29/24 at 1:57 pm to shel311
quote:
Our starting lineup just wasn't good enough to compete with those teams.
2-2 vs Mavs (Zion missed one win)
2-2 vs Wolves (Zion missed the 2 losses, won both games he played)
1-2 vs Nuggets
1-2 vs Thunder (Zion missed one of the losses)
I'd say we competed just fine.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 1:59 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:Regular season games do not equate to playoff games.
I'd say we competed just fine.
You can't use that to judge anything on how games in the playoffs would go.
Also 6-8 is not good enough
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 2:10 pm to shel311
quote:
Regular season games do not equate to playoff games.
i 100% agree, but we have no Zion playoff data to look at.
quote:
Also 6-8 is not good enough
Well 6-8 wasn't with our starting lineup. 5-5 was.
and why do you think 6-8 isn't good enough?
Do you know that we had the 5th most wins in the league against teams over .500? Our problem was there were 12 teams with less losses than us to teams under .500.
The near future Western Conference Champs had a losing record this year against teams over .500.
and who's George and why is he fighting?
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 2:36 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
and who's George and why is he fighting?
Man, in 20 years and 100k posts, I don't think I've ever had a random copy/paste error like that lol. That's funny. Good thing I didn't have something off the wall in the copy/paste chamber.
quote:But in fairness, my agument is last season even if healthy, we weren't as good as the top 4 West teams, and you disagree...that part is fine. But you can't use "no Zion playoff" data as a reason because then I can turn around and say you can't think we are as good as those teams because.....we have "no Zion data" to show that we are that good in the postseason.
i 100% agree, but we have no Zion playoff data to look at.
quote:Were the other teams perfectly healthy and had all their stars in all 14 of the games?
Well 6-8 wasn't with our starting lineup. 5-5 was.
quote:The argument is whether we are as good as those teams. A losing records shows we are not as good as those teams.
and why do you think 6-8 isn't good enough?
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 2:38 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 2:39 pm to shel311
quote:
But the question or discussion was around this season. 25/5 Zion is not getting us close to beating OKC or DEN or DAL. We clearly need more top end talent that also fits with what we're doing.
Yep, 25/5 Zion is like a top 20 player. We need a top 10 player if we even want to think about making noise
Posted on 5/29/24 at 2:42 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:Right
Yep, 25/5 Zion is like a top 20 player. We need a top 10 player if we even want to think about making noise
Not just that, Zion was 23/5 this season. We're not 25/5 away. We're zion being 30+ and 5 away or Zion eing 25/5 plus another top 10-15 level player.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 2:53 pm to shel311
quote:
Right
Not just that, Zion was 23/5 this season. We're not 25/5 away. We're zion being 30+ and 5 away or Zion eing 25/5 plus another top 10-15 level player.
Yeah, I personally think Zion will never be a top 10 guy. He would have to make MAJOR leaps in his game to reach that and he hasnt shown enough improvement over 5 years to think he will take that leap.
He's a non shooting 4 that doesn't rebound and is average at best on defense.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 2:58 pm to shel311
quote:
Were the other teams perfectly healthy and had all their stars in all 14 of the games?
the best player played in every game but one, Luka missed and we still lost.
quote:
The argument is whether we are as good as those teams. A losing records shows we are not as good as those teams.
We only had a losing record against one of them with Zion.
and trust me, i'm the biggest "regular season doesn't mean shite" guy around. We might not beat the Mavs or Nuggets in a 7 games series, nor the Wolves although Zion's history against Gobert says we'd beat them, but i'm not going to act like we aren't right there with them. I would'nt be afraid of OKC if Zion was playing.
The difference between those teams and us is their ability to close games and our inability to. Us figuring out what the reason for our inability to close games is how we get over the hump. Whether that's trading BI or getting a new coach, or our current coach figuring shite out.
We aren't the Sacramento Kings where we have a good squad and nice record but really have no chance of making noise in the playoffs b/c their best player simply isn't good enough to carry them that far. We have a potential MVP caliber player in Zion. We are much closer to the Wolves than we are to the Kings, b/c of Zion.
Remember that Jokic had a losing record his first 2 years in the league, and didn't make the playoffs in year 3 either. Lost in game 7 in the 2nd round in year 4 (big jump from not making the playoffs the first 3 years), then lost in the conference finals in year 5, then took a step back 2 years in a row without Murray, then finally won it once Murray came back. It took Jokic 5 or 6 years and some failures to realize what HE had to do in order to get his team a championship. This was the first year Zion was really a part of the team on the court for an extended period of time, and we won 49 games.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:13 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
We have a potential MVP caliber player in Zion.
See when I watch MVP caliber guys like Jokic, Luka, SGA, and Embiid, I come away thinking that Zion isn't close to those dudes.
I can't call Zion a potential MVP caliber play when he is levels below those guys.
Zion couldn't even make an all star team....
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:16 pm to Balsamic_duck
Zion will finish in the top 5 in MVP voting next year.
you shall see.
you shall see.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:19 pm to TeddyPadillac
Let's see what the roster looks like by August before we start making sweeping statements like that.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:26 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
Let's see what the roster looks like by August before we start making sweeping statements like that.
It doesn't matter. That's the point. It's already good enough for him to be an MVP level player, and moving BI isn't going to change that.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:42 pm to shel311
quote:
Not just that, Zion was 23/5 this season. We're not 25/5 away. We're zion being 30+ and 5 away or Zion eing 25/5 plus another top 10-15 level player.
Say it with me, we need Trae!
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:47 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
See when I watch MVP caliber guys like Jokic, Luka, SGA, and Embiid, I come away thinking that Zion isn't close to those dudes.
This season is kinda proving that you don't have to be on that level to get far in the playoffs if you have a very good defense and solid team around you. Maybe it's a weird season, but the only guy that is a lock as a MVP level player that made it to the conference finals is Luka. Tatum is below that, Ant is below that, Haliburton is definitely below that.
You need a player that is around 10 or so, another player that is at least 25th or so, and good defense/role players.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:48 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:He was also 4th in MVP voting and 1st team All NBA in year 5, and 9th in MVP voting and 2nd team all NBA in year 5. Again, just on a completely different level than Zion. Put it this way, that year 4/5 Jokic was so much better than ZIon, and that was Jokic averaging 20ppg, before he took the massive leap. Pre-leap Jokic was better than current Zion.
Remember that Jokic had a losing record his first 2 years in the league, and didn't make the playoffs in year 3 either. Lost in game 7 in the 2nd round in year 4 (big jump from not making the playoffs the first 3 years), then lost in the conference finals in year 5
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:51 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:I never wanted to be wrong so badly, but this is a wild take. You ain't gonna seen non-Pels fans thinking this, which tells you it's just a fan take
Zion will finish in the top 5 in MVP voting next year.
you shall see.
You're banking on Zion doing something he's yet to do for 5 seasons straight, giving a frick going into the season. And even if he does that, he has take a leap of the likes I'm not sure who has taken a similar leap before from year 5 to 6. So it's doing something Zion himself has never done and also doing something I'm not sure who has done at all before.
Not likely.
I will say this, if this does happen, and a trade for BI, we should be a West contender. I'd go as for as saying 100% without a single doubt in my mind, if Zion was a top 5 MVP dude next season, we would be better than we were this season even if we just had no BI, not even a trade return. Just top 5 Zion without BI, that team is wayyyyyy better than this year's team IMO.
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:53 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:We need Trae!
Say it with me, we need Trae!
He's the exact type of dude we need to take a swing on if available.
The Mavs did it with Kyrie. It doesn't always work, but it's the swing the small market team needs to take if he's available at a lower than thought of price.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 4:16 pm to shel311
Trae and Jarret allen all fricking day. Make it happen Demps...er griff
Posted on 5/29/24 at 4:25 pm to shel311
I’m good with shooting our shot with Trae, I get some of these trades are proposed with idea of “hey it frees you up to make a move for that next disgruntled star” but a lot has to happen and fall into place for you to get that guy. Time to push in some chips and make a run.
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