re: Should we be rooting for pacers to get swept??

He fits like a glove, he don’t need to be featured to get 20 pts, that’s hustle points and wide open 3’s. Let’s Zion and BI get all their touches while still being effective

Ok

Is it? It wasn’t so long ago that Turner was much better than Sabonis. Sabonis had an atrocious rookie year. You still think Turner is more talented than Sabonis?

Hayes is in line with most of the freshman bigs that goes into the draft after their freshman year. His numbers are right where it needs to be even if he is raw.

Turner has peaked and Hayes will be the better player in another 3 years. Much better tools than Turner.

Yes it is an outlandish claim. Turner is what we hope Hayes turns out to be. Right now Hayes has shown no development whatsoever even with the amount of minutes he received.

It could be the case that he turns out to be as good or better than Turner, but I would put that chance at about 30%.

I have much higher expectations from Hayes on the offensive end. I feel pretty good about his ability to anchor the Pelicans defense in a couple of years. He’s has better verticality, foot speed, lateral speed, and change of direction. His explosiveness will pop much more once he knows what he’s doing on the court.

Hayes is already a better roll man, finisher, and draws foul at a high rate.

Hayes has also shown good passing instincts and potential to develop a 3 point shot.

Say what you want about Hayes but he pops on tape. Once he puts it together, he’s going to be a monster.

Turner was pretty bad during his rookie year as well and it took him 2 years to develop into a credible deep threat. Even then he has not improved very much over the course of his career. Now he’s pretty damn good as he is but I don't see him adding much more to his game. His offensive upside is limited based on his mirror image production over the course of his career. This is the only year where the volume of his 3 point shot had an uptick and his percentages fell. He will never make a Jaren Jackson type of leap as a deep threat.

Hayes may be all potential but I’m willing to wait for him because when he pops, it’s amazing to watch.

quote:

---

Say what you want about Hayes but he pops on tape. Once he puts it together, he’s going to be a monster.

---

History says he'll be putting it together for someone else. Basically if you aren't an All Star caliber player pretty early, it's rare you make it to or very far into your 2nd contract with the team that drafted you.

quote:

---

I have much higher expectations from Hayes on the offensive end. I feel pretty good about his ability to anchor the Pelicans defense in a couple of years. He’s has better verticality, foot speed, lateral speed, and change of direction. His explosiveness will pop much more once he knows what he’s doing on the court.

---

Based on his play and in season development, this is not guaranteed.

quote:

---

Hayes is already a better roll man, finisher, and draws foul at a high rate.

---

He’s a quicker but not close in strength.

quote:

---

Hayes has also shown good passing instincts and potential to develop a 3 point shot.

---

I didn’t see the passing instincts.

Turner possesses both those skills.

quote:

---

Say what you want about Hayes but he pops on tape. Once he puts it together, he’s going to be a monster

---

The tape shows him getting burned and pushed around. He’s a lob threat who can hit free throws which is valuable but he’s very replaceable.

Turner has adapted his game into a bomber. He’s 23 and has modified into a modern NBA big. Something we wish Jah did.

Fred Vinson probably increases Turner’s TS% by at 5 percent, conservatively.

Most importantly his versatility allows the most important attribute to be highlighted-he can play right along with our franchise player.

quote:

---

And since he’s on Zion’s timeline, I’m willing to be patient with him.

---

Zion is much further along to being a winning basketball player than Hayes.

quote:

---

Yes it is an outlandish claim. Turner is what we hope Hayes turns out to be. Right now Hayes has shown no development whatsoever even with the amount of minutes he received.

It could be the case that he turns out to be as good or better than Turner, but I would put that chance at about 30%.

---

I would put it at something like 70%. Soggymoss, you are smarter than this. Hayes is still learning to play basketball. He doesn't need to develop a 3-pt shot to be as good as Turner. All he needs to do is add 15 pounds, improve his FT percentage, learn to box on to get DREBS, and learn how and when to rotate defensively.

Y'all thought that Hayes was a poor rebounder this year? Well then, you were right. But he was still a better rebounder than Myles Turner.

At what is Myles Turner elite? I can't find anything. But Jaxson already has elite athleticism and hands for a big man. He has tremendous roll gravity and could eventually end up as the best roll man in the league.

Hayes already has a much higher ORTG than Turner. And why is Hayes so much worse on defense? Because, as we all know, he needs to gain weight and learn defensive positioning, which we should expect him to do.

Trading a player with potential to be elite for a "good" player who doesn't do anything special is truly Dempsian. Do any of you really think that Turner is the missing piece for us to win a title? If not, why would we trade away someone who could end up being that piece?

quote:

---

Everything Hayes is “expected“ to be elite at is something Zion will be if not already.

He absolutely 100% needs to be a 3 point shooter to not get in Zions way.

---

All of this is so dumb. You really think that Griffin drafted Hayes with the expectation that he would take a redshirt year, and then Hayes would significantly exceed expectations in his first season ... and then Griffin would dump him for a guy who has been in the league for five seasons now and is maybe at the level of an average starter?

You are worried about fit, and that's not what we are doing right now. You make trades to get good fits when you need the last few pieces to make a title run.

quote:

---

All of this is so dumb. You really think that Griffin drafted Hayes with the expectation that he would take a redshirt year, and then Hayes would significantly exceed expectations in his first season ... and then Griffin would dump him for a guy who has been in the league for five seasons now and is maybe at the level of an average starter?

---

Level of an average starter? You don’t watch much basketball.

Moss, has already responded soundly to your illogical post...so I don’t have to cover the same bases he did. So I’ll address your dumbass statements.

quote:

---

You are worried about fit, and that's not what we are doing right now.

---

Yeah, that’s exactly what we’re doing.
Finding the best pieces to fit around a dynamic wing scorer and a generational post player.

quote:

---

and then Griffin would dump him for a guy who has been in the league for five seasons now and is maybe at the level of an average starter?

---

Back to this. Is Griffins job not to evaluate assets and sell high?

Since Hayes is such a “great“ offensive player given that offensive rating that is by no means skewed by the spoon fed buckets he receives, isn’t it better to sell high on a guy who can’t read an offense now then when there is more tape on him?

Do you want to possessions to logjam because Hayes is of no use hanging out at the elbows and high post while Zion seals off his man, needing spacing to be successful?

Hayes is redundant. Turner isn’t, fits
on the timeline and still has room to grow at 23. His contract is only 3 years and he’ll be with a top 3 shooting coach in the league.

Look at the West- Davis, Gobert, Jokic, KP, Ayton, Harrell/Zubac, LaMarcus(who killed us this year), Nurkic, etc.

We’re are getting roasted if Hayes is our starter in every matchup. Turner neutralizes some of those guys and has more of an advantage over a few more.

If Hayes is starting, we have the worst starting center in the NBA and the defensive woes continue.

That’s not an insult, that’s just a fact of life.