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Started By
Message
re: Shinn>The Bensons
Posted on 12/27/18 at 11:22 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Posted on 12/27/18 at 11:22 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
To pretend that ownership isn’t to blame(& in this case they are) is to be obtuse.
This board has brought up the issue of wanting a legit President of Basketball Operations for years. Many here think the Benson organization failed when it fired Monty but kept Demps instead of firing both. We do not think they are without glaring flaws by any stretch, but your thread title is Shinn>The Bensons which is a pretty poor angle to use to try and highlight what you think they're doing wrong. You cited the Shinn Hornets using the MLE to add Posey as them being willing to spend compared to Benson. Payroll in 2008-09 was about $69 million, $2 million under the luxury tax at the time. The Pels were less than $1 million away from the tax last year and likely would have gone into the tax this year had Boogie not gone down.
Again, if your basic argument is the Benson's should be doing better you picked a very bad approach and are receiving an appropriate amount of push back because of it.
0
Posted on 12/27/18 at 11:32 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
An intelligent response. Which begs the question? Is it time for the Pels to move?
15 years in. All-Stars, Playoff series wins(few and far between, but still),MVP level players.
The “wait until football is over” excuse tells me New Orleans isn’t worthy of an NBA team.
I’ll follow the NBA with or without the Pels in NOLA, like have for most of my life(mid 30s).
New Orleans has an incredible talent playing in front of them for years now and it doesn’t matter to them. They don’t appreciate it.
Part of that is on ownership.
The team will likely still make a profit when Davis leaves so I don't think its necessarily time to move. It's time to stop having New Orleans be one of the poorest cities in the country.
The playoff wins being few and far in between, the nagging thought of the best player leaving, etc is all why we don't have those fans. We never made it to the WCF or ECF, no rings, no real smart investment into the team.
You keep blaming the fans but have you been to New Orleans? Half the city is BROKE. People can't afford to go to a game on a Wednesday, especially if they have kids. I don't think that's a reason to move the team though.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 7:38 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
I’m speaking to a bunch of Saints fans
This is true.
quote:
who see the Bensons as great benefactors for buying the Pels.
This isn't even remotely true.
quote:
This organization would be better off not playing second fiddle to a football team.
This is definitely true.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 7:43 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:How many times did Shinn spend into the luxury tax to build a winner? Posey was an MLE deal and an overpay at that. Peja was a key FA deal, but how is it that one FA deal showed a commitment? You want to know how committed he was? He wanted to move the team and Norfolk was one of his targets. Not sure why, but I heard it directly from his mouth. The franchise was in dire straits and he was pinching pennies (and borrowing to the max) to keep it afloat. There is no comparison between he and the Bensons.
It’s well known that the Bensons won’t be a luxury tax team.
Hell the Zach Lowe article today mentions it.
It’s common knowledge. A top 5 player and won’t spend to build a title contender.
Shinn went and signed Posey and Peja to compliment the CCC. He saw the opportunity to build a winner. It didn’t work, but he made a run.
The Bensons aren’t going to do this because the Pels are second on the business flow chart.
This post was edited on 12/28/18 at 7:44 am
Posted on 12/28/18 at 10:26 am to NOSHAU
Didn’t shinn also not want to pay chandler? Which led to cp3 and west getting pissed off and eventually was the beginning of the end for that squad?
Posted on 12/28/18 at 11:34 am to Stxpel
OP must be about 18, Shinn could barely afford the team, even in the good times
Posted on 12/28/18 at 2:16 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
To pretend that ownership isn’t to blame(& in this case they are) is to be obtuse.
They have tried. They have just pushed the wrong buttons. It’s not a money thing like you are trying to portray
Posted on 12/28/18 at 2:33 pm to NIH
Nobody who actually remembers Shinn can ever say he's better than the Bensons. Shinn was broke as frick on top of being a bad owner
Posted on 12/28/18 at 2:42 pm to Lester Earl
If anything I’m not making it a money thing. Bensons have more money. Yeah.
Shinn pushed his chips in when he felt he had a contender.
Bensons won’t go over the cap to field one.
For example, Patrick McCaw just signed today for a measly 3 mil a year...dude would start for us...but we don’t have the cap room? Give me a break.
Fact is Bensons have botched this thing from jump street.
*Also a major reason why Shinn went broke was the move...and lack of fan support when he got here.
Shinn pushed his chips in when he felt he had a contender.
Bensons won’t go over the cap to field one.
For example, Patrick McCaw just signed today for a measly 3 mil a year...dude would start for us...but we don’t have the cap room? Give me a break.
Fact is Bensons have botched this thing from jump street.
*Also a major reason why Shinn went broke was the move...and lack of fan support when he got here.
This post was edited on 12/28/18 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 12/28/18 at 3:00 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Shinn pushed his chips in when he felt he had a contender.
By using the MLE to add a player while staying under the tax?
quote:
Bensons won’t go over the cap to field one.
Cap and tax are 2 different things I assume you meant tax. You are stating this as though they have said under no circumstances would they go into the tax which is completely not true.
From Demps' end of year presser
quote:
Alvin said Gayle Benson will do whatever it takes to win a championship. When do you get to the process where luxury tax, all that kind of stuff starts coming out? That's a tricky situation for small market to begin with. How do you guys approach right now, is there a player you think would push you into that or is it a situation?
"I think you just answered the question like, you know, I think if there's a situation that puts us in a position to compete for championships, we're going to go for it. That’s been the mindset. We're not going to just spend foolishly either, you know, we're going to try to be efficient and we're going to try to maximize our financial situation. But if the situation presents itself, we want to go for it."
LINK
That is the stance of most small market teams, if they can become a contention level team they'll go into to the tax.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 3:03 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Now I understand that you really just don't know anything about the NBA salary cap.
Not really. He actually started getting cheap when he finally had a contender, which is why Paul wanted out.
Dude, we are well over the cap already.
We absolutely, undeniably, inarguably, 100% do not have any cap room. We are OVER THE CAP. No matter who the player is, we can only offer the veteran minimum this year.
False.
quote:
Shinn pushed his chips in when he felt he had a contender.
Not really. He actually started getting cheap when he finally had a contender, which is why Paul wanted out.
quote:
Bensons won’t go over the cap to field one.
Dude, we are well over the cap already.
quote:
For example, Patrick McCaw just signed today for a measly 3 mil a year...dude would start for us...but we don’t have the cap room?
We absolutely, undeniably, inarguably, 100% do not have any cap room. We are OVER THE CAP. No matter who the player is, we can only offer the veteran minimum this year.
quote:
*Also a major reason why Shinn went broke was the move...and lack of fan support when he got here
False.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 3:21 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Shinn pushed his chips in when he felt he had a contender.
The Pelicans under Benson have done the same. It's just been the wrong moves. The Pelicans have no cap room right now.
George Shinn never paid a luxury tax either.
quote:
Fact is Bensons have botched this thing from jump street.
again, monetarily, how?
Posted on 12/28/18 at 3:24 pm to Lester Earl
The Bensons have never cut a check for James Posey and that's a fact bub
Posted on 12/28/18 at 3:26 pm to hendersonshands
small market teams generally do not pay the luxury tax. they have given enough help to AD, but it has been allocated improperly by the shitty GM and an even worse coach
Posted on 12/28/18 at 3:29 pm to Jester
quote:
Dude, we are well over the cap already
Not the true cap....the LUXURY Tax is the true cap.
quote:
We absolutely, undeniably, inarguably, 100% do not have any cap room. We are OVER THE CAP. No matter who the player is, we can only offer the veteran minimum this year.
Before we hit the tax.
We are 19th in payroll in the NBA.
The lip service about spending for contender is bullshite.
This franchise has missed several opportunities this season to sign guys immediately.
The Bensons won’t go into the tax. It will cost the franchise.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 4:30 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Not the true cap....the LUXURY Tax is the true cap.
Ok, you just need to stop. You came out with some half assed rant based on misinformed assumptions, kind of one of the reasons people use this board, but rather than having an actual discussion about how the Benson empire could be running the team better, you just double down on your original incorrect assumptions.
quote:
We are 19th in payroll in the NBA.
Yeah, because we lost a star player to injury and had to reshuffle. That wasn't part of the plan. You have conveniently left out the fact that last year, when they did have Boogie on the payroll, the Pels were 6th. LINK /
quote:
The lip service about spending for contender is bullshite.
Maybe, maybe not, we won't know until it happens. But history shows small market teams will go into the tax for near contenders or better. The Spurs, and Grizzlies have done it. Even OKC which broke up a contender because they didn't think they could afford it has regularly been a tax team. There's no reason to think the Pels wouldn't follow in their path if they managed to put together a team that was more than a playoff bubble team. Paying the tax or not is about league economics, not cheap owners being cheap.
quote:
The Bensons won’t go into the tax. It will cost the franchise.
You are just stating what you want to be true. They essentially traded 2 1sts for Cousins. You don't do that for a rental. If Boogie hadn't gotten injured there would have been no practical way to avoid the tax long term. They probably would have become a tax team this year and definitely would have become a tax team when AD got his SuperMax the following year. Why trade 2 1sts for Boogie to help keep AD around to get the SuperMax if you didn't plan on going into the tax?
This post was edited on 12/28/18 at 4:32 pm
Posted on 12/28/18 at 5:27 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
We used the room exemption for Elfrid Payton, and the full MLE for Randle.... Before we even signed those 2 we were over the soft cap, which you only have the Room and MLE to sign players that's not on minimum deals..
We are literally hamstrung by the cap, there was no way to make any other moves besides vet min guys..
Learn how the cap works before posting this nonsense
We are literally hamstrung by the cap, there was no way to make any other moves besides vet min guys..
Learn how the cap works before posting this nonsense
Posted on 12/28/18 at 5:54 pm to Soggymoss
Are you kidding? Dude you’ve got no feel the league and you’re lecturing me?
Calling AD a beta is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen.
Calling AD a beta is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 5:57 pm to TigerinATL
I’m fully aware...and when you misstep you pivot.
19th in payroll.(with 2 top 20 players on payroll).
Don’t tell me we are spending for a contender.
And as stated by reputable sources ie not a bunch of message board guys -THE BENSONS ARENT PAYING THE TAX ANYTIME SOON. FULL STOP.
19th in payroll.(with 2 top 20 players on payroll).
Don’t tell me we are spending for a contender.
And as stated by reputable sources ie not a bunch of message board guys -THE BENSONS ARENT PAYING THE TAX ANYTIME SOON. FULL STOP.
This post was edited on 12/28/18 at 6:38 pm
Posted on 12/28/18 at 6:29 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
They used their FA exceptions to add Randle and Payton and couldn’t legally do anymore unless you wanted them to throw money at Cousins or burn a draft pick to trade for someone making about $3 million. They reportedly looked at signing and trading Boogie. which could have added more to payroll but couldn’t find any takers. You at think the should have spent more but they really couldn’t have.
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