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Message
re: Pels Summer League Thread - Roster
Posted on 7/9/18 at 4:46 pm to PelicansBay
Posted on 7/9/18 at 4:46 pm to PelicansBay
So you quote one post and then when you are shown to be wrong, you say, oh no, I wasn't referring to that post (which I quoted you in), but this other post over here!
Uh, okay.
Not that you care, because according to you I am always wrong, but my opinion is:
I would offer Bluiett a two way. Not because of the shots he made but because I see intelligence, good court vision, and the ability to play a role even though he is coming from a #1 scorer role. Thats rare. But if it came down to either giving him a guaranteed deal or losing him, I would first have to explore who else I could get with guaranteed deals. Then, I decide.
As for Carr. He has no NBA skills. If he was out of control and just young, sure develop him. But he isn't out of control or low IQ or just in need of some good coaching. He won't ever be an NBA player. Its clear watching him. He can't turn the corner off the dribble, has no vision for a guard and isn't a great shooter either. He simply won't be an NBA player. I'd rather find a raw guy from one of the other 29 teams who might have a chance. Carr has none.
Uh, okay.
Not that you care, because according to you I am always wrong, but my opinion is:
I would offer Bluiett a two way. Not because of the shots he made but because I see intelligence, good court vision, and the ability to play a role even though he is coming from a #1 scorer role. Thats rare. But if it came down to either giving him a guaranteed deal or losing him, I would first have to explore who else I could get with guaranteed deals. Then, I decide.
As for Carr. He has no NBA skills. If he was out of control and just young, sure develop him. But he isn't out of control or low IQ or just in need of some good coaching. He won't ever be an NBA player. Its clear watching him. He can't turn the corner off the dribble, has no vision for a guard and isn't a great shooter either. He simply won't be an NBA player. I'd rather find a raw guy from one of the other 29 teams who might have a chance. Carr has none.
This post was edited on 7/9/18 at 4:47 pm
4
Posted on 7/9/18 at 4:48 pm to NOSHAU
But why give him anything just because you drafted him? Why not simply cut your losses and find some other undrafted guy who has more upside?
Don't compound mistakes.
Don't compound mistakes.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 4:56 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
I would think "not being on the roster" would include a 2-way contract or a foreign assignment.
He did say that "he might not make the roster this year but maybe next year", so that could mean they assume 2 way or Euro stash. They also said they liked multiple things about him, his size, his IQ and his scoring. That's a lot of things to like for a 51st pick.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 4:56 pm to Crewz
Damn that ether though for Carr. You bumping Nas man?
Posted on 7/9/18 at 5:04 pm to Silverfoxx
Think of it like this: If Carr was undrafted. Or if he was drafted 58th by some other team and had the same exact summer league for someone else...Would you offer him the two-way contract?
Of course not. This is the most common type of mistake human beings make. They compound mistakes because of bias and attachment, rather than stepping back and making the objective, rational call. Don't view Carr as a guy YOU drafted or even as a guy on YOUR team. View him through the same lens as the other 250 guys who you could offer the two-way to, and then choose the best one from that group, with no attachment.
Of course not. This is the most common type of mistake human beings make. They compound mistakes because of bias and attachment, rather than stepping back and making the objective, rational call. Don't view Carr as a guy YOU drafted or even as a guy on YOUR team. View him through the same lens as the other 250 guys who you could offer the two-way to, and then choose the best one from that group, with no attachment.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 5:10 pm to Crewz
I can’t argue with that. It’s a sunk cost. Walk away if it doesn’t make sense.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 5:18 pm to Crewz
quote:That's fine if they think there are better options out there. I just think that with all the scouting they have done, there would be a tendency to rely more on your scouting than 3 SL games.
But why give him anything just because you drafted him? Why not simply cut your losses and find some other undrafted guy who has more upside?
Don't compound mistakes.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 5:39 pm to NOSHAU
You would have done scouting on every other guy out there as well. Whether they were drafted this year or in past years.
To me, its clear as day that Carr is not an NBA player. He will put up 40 in China, and thats great. But he isn't an NBA guy. I saw several guys on the Pistons I would give a shot to before Carr - like that kid Hearn. Duncan Robinson impressed the shite out of me. There is this PG on Washington named Chiozza who has some game.
Point is: I don't waste that contract on a guy I am certain can't play in this league
To me, its clear as day that Carr is not an NBA player. He will put up 40 in China, and thats great. But he isn't an NBA guy. I saw several guys on the Pistons I would give a shot to before Carr - like that kid Hearn. Duncan Robinson impressed the shite out of me. There is this PG on Washington named Chiozza who has some game.
Point is: I don't waste that contract on a guy I am certain can't play in this league
Posted on 7/9/18 at 5:51 pm to Crewz
quote:
Not that you care, because according to you I am always wrong, but my opinion is:
I would offer Bluiett a two way. Not because of the shots he made but because I see intelligence, good court vision, and the ability to play a role even though he is coming from a #1 scorer role. Thats rare. But if it came down to either giving him a guaranteed deal or losing him, I would first have to explore who else I could get with guaranteed deals. Then, I decide.
As for Carr. He has no NBA skills. If he was out of control and just young, sure develop him. But he isn't out of control or low IQ or just in need of some good coaching. He won't ever be an NBA player. Its clear watching him. He can't turn the corner off the dribble, has no vision for a guard and isn't a great shooter either. He simply won't be an NBA player. I'd rather find a raw guy from one of the other 29 teams who might have a chance. Carr has none.
I didn't say you're always wrong, but you're opinion is suspect in many instances. I understand you don't like Carr, but he has a chance to make it. He's similar to Burks from Utah, neither are the greatest athletes, but they have NBA frames and aren't really deficient in any area. Maybe Carr was supposed to play SG in the summer league, but Jackson was injured, so he has to facilitate more? Uh, you think that might have something to do with his performances so far? He's better than your guy Lemon Jr.
This post was edited on 7/9/18 at 5:53 pm
Posted on 7/9/18 at 7:03 pm to PelicansBay
Anyone have thoughts on Shields/Alexander?
Posted on 7/9/18 at 7:14 pm to LosLobos111
They will make fine livings overseas. Neither is an NBA player. Alexander, especially. He would have no chance in today's NBA.
My suggestion: Watch some other summer league games. Don't get caught up who is on your favorite teams roster vs some other teams roster. That shouldn't matter. Imagine them all as free agents. Then, with bias removed, assess the guys you could see making a contribution in the league. The one that has been clear as day to me is Duncan Robinson. If it took giving him a guaranteed deal to pry him away from Miami, I think I'd do it.
My suggestion: Watch some other summer league games. Don't get caught up who is on your favorite teams roster vs some other teams roster. That shouldn't matter. Imagine them all as free agents. Then, with bias removed, assess the guys you could see making a contribution in the league. The one that has been clear as day to me is Duncan Robinson. If it took giving him a guaranteed deal to pry him away from Miami, I think I'd do it.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 7:26 pm to Crewz
quote:
My suggestion: Watch some other summer league games. Don't get caught up who is on your favorite teams roster vs some other teams roster. That shouldn't matter. Imagine them all as free agents. Then, with bias removed, assess the guys you could see making a contribution in the league. The one that has been clear as day to me is Duncan Robinson. If it took giving him a guaranteed deal to pry him away from Miami, I think I'd do it.
When you join a team's summer league squad, that team has the best chance to sign you.If Miami offers Duncan Robinson a contract, why would he choose us over them (especially if it's a 2-way contract, we don't have a G-League team)?
Posted on 7/9/18 at 7:52 pm to PelicansBay
Based on history, less than 2 guys this year will get an NBA contract from Summer League. Only 25-40 will get a two-way deal. There are hundreds of players. Some team might have a quality player on their SL squad, but they are already loaded at that position. Or they might want to save a two-way spot for later in the season.
Duncan Robinson was an example of a guy I'd give a guaranteed contract to in order to steal him from his team. Agree that a two-way contract won't be enough. But there are 2-3 dozen that won't get a two-way deal that I would give a better chance at one day being an NBA player than Tony Carr.
Duncan Robinson was an example of a guy I'd give a guaranteed contract to in order to steal him from his team. Agree that a two-way contract won't be enough. But there are 2-3 dozen that won't get a two-way deal that I would give a better chance at one day being an NBA player than Tony Carr.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 7:59 pm to Crewz
quote:
When you join a team's summer league squad, that team has the best chance to sign you.If Miami offers Duncan Robinson a contract, why would he choose us over them (especially if it's a 2-way contract, we don't have a G-League team)?
Well Miami have the highest payroll in the league for one and from what I've read, are just interested in giving him a two way.
We'll give him a full spot
This post was edited on 7/9/18 at 8:00 pm
Posted on 7/9/18 at 7:59 pm to Crewz
So we are going to make the assessment that Carr is a "sunk cost" after three summer league games?
I don't particularly like him as a player, but I doubt the pelicans are changing their assessment of him based on what we have seen in summer league so far, when they have a college career to go off of.
I don't particularly like him as a player, but I doubt the pelicans are changing their assessment of him based on what we have seen in summer league so far, when they have a college career to go off of.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 8:07 pm to Dayman
There assessment of him wasn't that high to begin with.
Guys at that level - you can group 150 of them together and there is little to no difference. You take the one you like, but if you get him in camp and he isn't that good, you scout the other 149 and pick another one.
For those who aren't that familiar with the NBA, a guy picked in the 50's in the NBA is similar to a 7th round pick in the NFL. And 7th round picks are cut ALL THE TIME. And UDFA's make that same team. In fact, there will be more UDFA's on rosters next year than 7th rounders.
Same thing applies here. There is no difference between a guy drafted in the 50s and a guy that goes undrafted. None at all. You have seen it with Bluiett.
And yes - I can see skill set in three summer league games. Unlike others, I don't look at stats. I honestly have no idea how Carr's stats have been. But I can watch him and see clearly he does not have an NBA skill set. And its not because he is young and needs fine tuning. It's because he lacks the core skills that it would require to be an NBA player.
Guys at that level - you can group 150 of them together and there is little to no difference. You take the one you like, but if you get him in camp and he isn't that good, you scout the other 149 and pick another one.
For those who aren't that familiar with the NBA, a guy picked in the 50's in the NBA is similar to a 7th round pick in the NFL. And 7th round picks are cut ALL THE TIME. And UDFA's make that same team. In fact, there will be more UDFA's on rosters next year than 7th rounders.
Same thing applies here. There is no difference between a guy drafted in the 50s and a guy that goes undrafted. None at all. You have seen it with Bluiett.
And yes - I can see skill set in three summer league games. Unlike others, I don't look at stats. I honestly have no idea how Carr's stats have been. But I can watch him and see clearly he does not have an NBA skill set. And its not because he is young and needs fine tuning. It's because he lacks the core skills that it would require to be an NBA player.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 10:50 pm to Crewz
I don't get this attachment to Carr that people have. Yes he was drafted by us (very late) but why not look at him as just part of the pool of all the guys in Summer league? He has a minimal ceiling and we're better off kicking the tyres other places.
Offer a contract to someone like Jabari Bird
Offer a contract to someone like Jabari Bird
This post was edited on 7/9/18 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 7/9/18 at 11:21 pm to Crewz
quote:I hear ya. If the Pelicans feel the same way as you do, they should not offer him any contract. I just assumed they saw some value in him by drafting him.
You would have done scouting on every other guy out there as well. Whether they were drafted this year or in past years.
To me, its clear as day that Carr is not an NBA player. He will put up 40 in China, and thats great. But he isn't an NBA guy. I saw several guys on the Pistons I would give a shot to before Carr - like that kid Hearn. Duncan Robinson impressed the shite out of me. There is this PG on Washington named Chiozza who has some game.
Point is: I don't waste that contract on a guy I am certain can't play in this league
Posted on 7/9/18 at 11:21 pm to Pelefraan 1
quote:Stand in line.
Offer a contract to someone like Jabari Bird
Posted on 7/10/18 at 7:41 am to NOSHAU
There were 10-15 guys they had in that same tier. Maybe more. They threw a dart at one of them.
They did have some guys they liked and tried to trade up for (their wish list included Jacob Evans and Malvin Frazier) but once those guys were gone, there was just a pool of lottery ticket guys who they wouldn't mind giving a chance to, but weren't in love with.
They did have some guys they liked and tried to trade up for (their wish list included Jacob Evans and Malvin Frazier) but once those guys were gone, there was just a pool of lottery ticket guys who they wouldn't mind giving a chance to, but weren't in love with.
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